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Okay, the first and third tiers of the Boar Style feats read as follows:
Boar Style
Benefit: You can deal bludgeoning damage or slashing damage with your unarmed strikes—changing damage type is a free action. While using this style, once per round when you hit a single foe with two or more unarmed strikes, you can tear flesh. When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack.
Boar Shred
Benefit: You can make an Intimidate check to demoralize an opponent as a move action. While using Boar Style, whenever you tear an opponents flesh, once per round at the start of that opponents turn he takes 1d6 bleed damage. The bleed damage dealt while using Boar Style persist even if you later switch to a different style.
The confusion seems to be exactly what is bleed damage and what is actually intended to be 'rend' damage? Does the bleed damage (whether 1d6, 2d6 or 3d6) stack with itself each time it is applied? How exactly do these two style feats work together?
Yep its a mess. For it to make sense they ether need to stack or the first one was meant to be something like rend. (though likely not rend specifically.)
This has yet to be cleared up by anything official and people have been debating it for awhile. There is no clear answer.
I've always taken Boar Shred as implying that this bleed damage specifically stacks with the bleed from Boar Style. Basically, it seems like a really awkwardly worded way of saying that the bleed damage is increased from 2d6 to 3d6.
That's just my best guess, though. O_o Looks like someone used boar shred on that sentence.
Obviously, this is nothing official, but my interpretation of what they were going for is that Boar Style gives you bonus damage when you hit with two or more attacks that is ineffective against enemies immune to bleed.
Then, Boar Shred gives you the actual bleed damage that triggers every round.
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Obviously, this is nothing official, but my interpretation of what they were going for is that Boar Style gives you bonus damage when you hit with two or more attacks that is ineffective against enemies immune to bleed.
Then, Boar Shred gives you the actual bleed damage that triggers every round.
I think that may have actually been fairly close to what they were trying to achieve, though the feats are just a mess as worded since Boar Style should already be giving you round to round bleed damage and bleed doesn't stack with bleed...
Don't most continuous Bleed state they are?
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Don't most continuous Bleed state they are?
The very definition of Bleed damage is that it's damage which repeats each round.
It's possible, however, that the author of the feat was thinking of Bleed damage as a damage type like frost or acid and that it wouldn't be recurring unless the ability specifically said so. So the initial 2d6 was intended to be a one time effect that didn't work against creatures immune to bleed, and only the 1d6 from Boar Shred was meant to be recurring. That would also make the Boar Style feat more power appropriate. An extra 2d6 bleed damage recurring each round that can be triggered on a full attack is a fairly powerful ability, especially for a feat that can be taken by a level 1 monk.
Based on the fact that the Boar Style damage says "...When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack", I could definitely see that explanation being the case.
Otherwise, RAW, the only reason to take Boar Shred is so you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize an opponent as a move action, because Bleed effects don't stack unless they specifically say they do, and nothing in either feat says so.
I thought so. I guess I should have worded it as "Is there any non-continuous Bleed Damage?" Opps... Live & Learn.
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The confusion seems to be exactly what is bleed damage and what is actually intended to be 'rend' damage? Does the bleed damage (whether 1d6, 2d6 or 3d6) stack with itself each time it is applied? How exactly do these two style feats work together?
IMO, the 2d6 should be 'rend' damage and not 'bleed' damage.
2d6 bleed damage, for the first feat in the chain (available at 3rd level), followed up by 1d6 bleed damage for the third feat in the chain (available at 9th level), seems counter-intuitive.
As for stacking, bleed effects from the same source, AFAIK, do not stack, so the 1d6 bleed from the latter feat shouldn't stack with itself (although if the former feat also produces a bleed effect, then it should probably stack with the latter feat, as a 1d6 bleed effect an a second 2d6 bleed effect, and require seperate Heal checks to end).
I am just gonna make Boar Style Rend Damage and have the later feat be the Bleed... Even if I don't they technically aren't from the same feat/source. Add in Bleeding Critical and it just becomes frightening.
Well I personal would not like it being rend damage. I use boar style in a combo with feral combat training, claw attacks and rending claws. So if it ever got changed to rend that would put a hamper on hat build.
Still my personal build aside it could really freaking use some clarification.
Well as it stands this is one of the Most Powerful Bleed Damages a PC can get. It is also one of, if not, the earliest Bleed a PC can get. Hence, Why I vote more for Rend. Though either way the Feat is a powerful source of Damage for a Monk.
Now Rend actually makes it more powerful in the long run. As it stands it deals a large amount of Bleed but is only usable once to get the damage. With Rend Damage you can continually deal the 2d6 with the addition of the 1d6 Damage.
Also I don't think the Claw Attacks can be used to activate this ability...
Well I personal would not like it being rend damage. I use boar style in a combo with feral combat training, claw attacks and rending claws. So if it ever got changed to rend that would put a hamper on hat build.
Still my personal build aside it could really freaking use some clarification.
Is there some kind of limit on the number of rend effects you can trigger that I'm not aware of?
Is there some kind of limit on the number of rend effects you can trigger that I'm not aware of?Well I personal would not like it being rend damage. I use boar style in a combo with feral combat training, claw attacks and rending claws. So if it ever got changed to rend that would put a hamper on hat build.
Still my personal build aside it could really freaking use some clarification.
You know... That's a good question. You know how 3.5/PF is. So much does not stack that I am pretty much conditioned to assume it does not. But I am not even sure the term stack applies here. It is a type of damage not an effect or bonus. So... maybe two rends wouldn't interfere with one another. Though perhaps one would need to land 4 attacks? (which would be a problem in my build.) but there is a feat to fix that.
Anyway I don't have a real answer. Interesting.
My GM has always interpreted it as either A: "Bleed damage that is only damage for that round." or B: "Rend damage instead as that seems to make sense given that a later ability allows real "bleed" damage."
Quoted from my GM and my group agrees :)
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It has to be meant as some kind of rend damage. A Wounding weapon is worth at least a +3 bonus (+1 Enhancement, Wounding is a +2 property) and going by the WBL table characters should be nearly 12th level before having a property that is arguably less powerful than Boar Style, a feat you can acquire at 1st level.