Multiplying Damage

[KeithJohn]

Okay, being the newbie I am (only one game...enjoyed it so much I'm ready to sell of my historical miniatures), I've got a question generated by reading the rules that checking the different posts hasn't helped. It regards multiplying damage. From page 179, Core Rules:

"When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage. So, if you are asked to double the damage twice, the end result is three times the normal damage."

Math deficient as I am, this seems a bit confusing. The last time I checked, if I double the number 1 twice it comes out to four not three. Taking the case of 1d6 + 3 stren:
What the rules say is that this should be 3d6 + 9, but my poor head keeps telling me it should be 4d6 + 12 (1d6 + 3 doubled once = 2d6 +6, then working off the original number again you get 2d6 + 6, together that comes out to 4d6 + 12).

I know I've got to be missing the mechanics in here but I can't seem to grasp it. Anbody got an explanation that would make senes? Sorry for the elementary questions, but a guys gotta learn.

[Kazaan]

The idea is that when you double something, it works on the base value only, not the composite value from previous doubling. Say, for the sake of example, you have the original value of 1d6 + 3 and you get to double it. You get 2d6 + 6 because 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 = 2d6 + 6. Now if you get two doubles, you first double it once for 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3. Now you double only the initial value a second time so (1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3) + 1d6 + 3 which gives a total of 3d6 + 9. In other words, you're only doubling the base value of 1d6 + 3. Another way to look at it is that you get a +100% bonus that, again, only works on the base value. Normal value is 100%. If you add +100% to that, you net 200%. Add 100% again, and you get 300%.

[FrinkiacVII]

What they're saying is this:

Say a thing does 5 damage. And there are 2 different effects that tell you to double it. What happens is, the first effect adds 5 and the second effect adds 5. So "double it" is really short for "if it would do X points of damage, it does an additional X points as well" When there's only one such effect in place, the net result is the the damage goes from 5 to 5+5 (so 10). Thus it seems like doubling the damage. When there are two effects "doubling" something, each effect adds damage equal to the original unmodified number (so you don't double the double). Thus 5 turns into 5 + 5 + 5 = 15 when there are two doubling effects.

It's like that because that's how the rules writers want it to be. It's less prone to abuse and makes things less imbalanced, or so you'd think.

[AdamMeyers]

Which is exactly why they included that to begin with. If you found a way to double, double, and double again your damage, you would end up with a x8 multiplier, which would completely break the game. So they included a rule that instead of doubling the damage each time, it just increases the multiplier (x2 becomes x3 becomes x4).

So yeah, the math is confusing because the rule specifically is there to say the math works differently in this game. Otherwise everyone would be running around with scythes (x4 on a critical hit) and look for other ways to give it just one more doubling of damage, since that would result in a x8 multiplier, and could let a moderate-level character kill dragons in one shot.

[KeithJohn]

AAAHAAA....so, if the situation called for doubling the damage, say, three times it would be 4d6 + 12, right?

Basically, you start with 1d6 + 3 as sort of a static point and any additional 1d6 + 3 counts as being paired with it since it is already there.

Sort of: A+B+(static A)C+(static A)D, where A is paired with each, but only counted once.

Man, I would have never figured that one out. Did I mention I had to take remedial algebra in college some 32 years ago? Where were you guys when I needed good explanations back then?

Thanks so much for the help. You guys are awesome, made my day.

[GrenMeera]

For those of you that are more numerically inclined but confused by the wording (not the OP), I'll throw up a formula.

(Example used: Double your damage stacking with Triple your damage)

Turn each type into a multiplier numeric such as:
Double = x2
Triple = x3
Quadruple = x4

Subtract 1 for each applied bonus. This represents the initial base value and is very akin to saying 200% damage is the same as adding an additional 100%:
Double = 2 - 1 = 1
Triple = 3 - 1 = 2

Total the results:
1 + 2 = 3

Add in the initial damage as a single +1:
3 + 1 = 4

This is your final multiplier. If you were asked to double your damage and triple your damage, you would multiply it by 4.

Final formula:
Final = ( ( (multiplier1 - 1) + (multiplier2 - 1)... + multiplierN - 1) + 1) x Initial