Hello again people, I just wnt to say that is a pleasure to have where to go when doubts is blowing my head in my games....
Okay then, in my game a new player wants to play with a gunslinger.
He wants to have two weapon fighting feat, Rapid shot, Rapid Reload and use a pepperbox.
He is asking me if theres a way for him to use all the attacks of 7th level plus 1 for two weapon fight and plus 1 for rapid shot?
And to reload is there a way for him to reload a pepperbox a a free action???
anyone???
Just exactly how many shots per round is he expecting to fire off?
What sort of penalties is he willing to accept?
he is creating the gunslinger I have to show him the options...
It's impossible for a character to dual wield firearms and reload.
"Loading a Firearm: You need at least one hand free to load one-handed and two-handed firearms."
Also, a pepperbox is an advanced firearm, so it is impossible to reload it as anything faster than a swift action, not that this matters because you cannot reload two firearms simultaneously since they require a free hand.
The best way to do a dual wield build with firearms is to use 5 levels of Gunslinger/Pistolero and then go Fighter/Two Weapon Warrior. As soon as possible buy two Pistols of the Infinite Sky and use those. Of course, this is impossible at low levels because of the cost of the weapons. With some minor house ruling you could easily strip 4 points of enhancement bonus off of the weapons to bring the cost down, but the cheapest they could possibly be is 25,300 each for +1 versions, meaning you would still need to be MINIMUM 10th level before you could reasonably afford a pair of them, and that only leaves you with about 11,700gp left to buy the rest of your equipment.
Strictly speaking what your friend is asking is possible. You can use Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting and Greater Two Weapon Fighting to gain extra attacks with firearms wielded in both hands, but there is no means of reloading them without spending a couple rounds in between each of your full-round attacks doing so, because you won't have a hand free. You'll fire, holster one weapon as a standard action and reload one as a swift action, then on the next round, holster the loaded one as a standard action, quick draw the unloaded one as a free action, and load it as a swift action, then quick draw the first one as a free action. On your next round you can fire.
That said, you could cheeseball it if you play a Venara or a Tiefling, or any character that can get an prehensile tail. At that point you can pass the guns between your hands and tail as free actions, so you could fire, free action pass one gun to tail, swift action reload other gun, free action pass that gun to tail and pass the unloaded gun to a hand. Next round, swift action load that gun, then free action pass the other gun to your hand and fire. The turn after you run into a problem though, because you cannot reload both guns in the same turn.
I suppose you could play an Alchemist with two Extra Arm discoveries and use your four arms to fire and reload two pistols...That would work fairly well, and with Vivisectionist you could potentially get sneak attack dice on the gun damage as well.
Sorry for the wall of text.
He wants to use two weapon fight, rapid shot, resolve the attacks and reload at the same round...
he is 7th and deals 2 shots, he wants +1 two weapon fight, +1 rapid shot, and +1 haste spell.
Total of 5 attacks, there's some weapon that he can shot 5 times and reload in the same round????
with weapon chord he can drop a weapon to reload another ok???
I stand corrected. I must have been thinking of a pepperbox rifle. A Revolver is the advanced version of the pepperbox.
As for the feats involved, if he is a 7th level Human Gunslinger he would have 6 feats, so he could have Point Blank Shot, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, and Rapid Shot. That's two shots with his primary hand, two shots with his offhand, and an extra shot from Rapid Shot. He would take a -2 penalty to attack from Two Weapon Fighting and a further -2 from Rapid Shot. That would give him 5 attacks, three of which are at his highest BAB, with a -4 penalty to all of his attacks. Haste would give him a 6th attack at his highest BAB and a +1 to his attacks.
So assuming an 18 dex, the above listed feats plus Weapon Focus and Precise Shot, Gun training, and +1 enhancement bonuses on both guns, his attacks would be as follows:
+7BAB, +4 Dex, +1 enhancement, +1 Point Blank Shot (if within 30 feet), +1 Haste, +1 Weapon Focus, -2 TWF, -2 RS for a total of +12/+12/+12/+7 with primary hand and +12/+7 off hand, firing against Touch AC if he is within the first range increment. The damage would be +4 Dex from Gun Training, +1 from the enhancement bonus, and +1 from Point Blank Shot (if within 30 feet) for a total of 1d8+6 damage on each shot.
Higher enhancement bonuses would give higher attack and damage, of course, and there are other sources of extra attack and damage in the form of party buffs and whatnot. Aside from the reloading problems, nothing your friend suggests is outside the rules.
weapon cord, rapid reload, Alchemical cartridge, paper (bullet or pellet).
With this he can shot reload with free action with one hand, and then change the weapon an shot with another and reload...
OK?
The problem is you can only take a single Swift Action a turn.
Depends on if you are using Pepperboxes or Not. A Pepperbox is workable. A normal Pistol or Double Barrel is not.
its possible to do...but you have to sacrifice levels of gunslinger for levels of alchemists or spend quite a bit of money on extra equipment, or use possibly confusing tactics that YOU as the GM should or should not allow (since its up to you at that point).
Guns are powerful weapons, while being incredibly easy to hit with them they do fair damage for their size and with Gun Training getting to add your dex to damage along with extra bonuses is just awesome.
Pistol using gunslingers are suppose to be more front line fighter types, they get a full BAB along with a good hit die for HP, and pistols have a much shorter range than muskets for using the Touch AC to hit. I understand your player wanting to Dual-Wield pistols like a boss (upon starting pathfinder and seeing the gunslinger class that was my first thought too lol)...however it is difficult on purpose, unless you are using advanced firearms reloading a pistol takes real time and effort, its not something meant to be done on the fly in a negligible amount of time.
Another option your character if he winds up NOT wanting to go through these things to try to get all of his attacks without being super cheesy (which isn't really a bad thing sometimes), see if he would want to wield a sword and pistol...they work with the TWF feats, you get a melee weapon to you use when your up there, and there's also a feat that allows you to use your pistol in melee range while wielding a sword without provoking AoOs.
Duel-wielding one-handed firearms is possible, just difficult.
A glove of holding, a weapon cord or two, and the Quick Draw and Rapid Reload feats are all you need to make it work I think.
I still say use a tail or an extra limb. it solves the entire problem, especially if you are using Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges to make reloading a free action. If you have a 3rd arm, it can reload your Primary or Off Hand weapon as a free action as often as it wants since you can take any number of free actions per turn. If you have a prehensile tail, passing an item from one limb to another is also a free action, so you simply full round, then spend a bunch of free actions juggling the weapons between your tail and hands to reload each of them (IE the tail holds one gun while you reload another, then passes that gun to your hand and you swap it with the freshly loaded gun, reload, then swap the first gun back into your hand, ready to be fired again the next round). If you want a breakdown of the actions in each round it would look like this:
Full Round: Fire 4 shots from Primary hand, 2 shots from Off hand
Free: Swap Primary hand to tail
Free: Reload Off hand
Free: Swap Primary Hand to hand
Free: Swap Off hand to tail
Free: Reload Primary hand
Free: Swap Off hand to hand
--Ready to fire--
Technically this doesn't even need a pepperbox to work, seeing as you can do that entire set of free actions in between each shot with a standard Pistol. It's just silly to think about the logistics of it. A third arm makes it easier because you can actually manipulate items with it, not just hold them, so your arm reloads either gun as a free action between each shot.
Theoretically you could use a weapon cord but at some point the rotation breaks down.
-Round 1-
--Full Round fire both weapons, Off hand still has two bullets
--Free Action drop Off hand
--Free Action reload Primary hand
--Swift Action recover Off hand
-Round 2-
--Full Round fire both weapons, both are empty
--Free Action drop Off hand
--Free Action reload Primary hand
--Swift Action recover Off Hand
-Round 3-
--Free Action drop Primary hand
--Free Action reload Off Hand
--Swift Action recover Primary hand
--Full Round fire both weapons, Off hand still has two bullets
-Round 4-
--Free Action drop Off hand
--Free Action reload Primary hand
--Swift Action recover Off Hand
--Full Round fire both weapons, both are empty
-Round 5-
--Free Action drop Off hand
--Free Action reload Primary hand
--Swift Action recover Off hand
--NOTE: Do not fire in round 5, use other actions--
-Round 6-
--Free Action drop Primary hand
--Free Action reload Off hand
--Swift Action recover Primary hand
--NOTE: Do not fire in round 6, use other actions--
-Round 7-
--Repeat, starting at the top.
Basically you make four full round attacks, then spend two rounds re-setting from the top, and use the available actions to do other things like moving, pistol whipping, or other attacks that don't require you to fire a weapon. And to be honest, if combat is lasting long enough for you to go through this rotation more than twice you have a serious problem.
It's the "carry things" that makes this work. Passing an object from one limb to another is a free action (or possibly even a non-action) as far as I can tell, and since the prehensile tail is capable of carrying a gun (but not using or manipulating it) you can simply pass the gun to the tail in order to free up the hand necessary to reload the other gun, then pass it back to your hand when you are done. The tail does none of the reloading/manipulation, just holds the gun while your hands do that.