Gender / Sex Politics in the Real World


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Hmmm. I find that site very interesting, Comrade A. I believe I will bookmark it, and follow along. As per the article itself, seeing yet another case of the Roma used as scapegoats is infuriatingly familiar.


Not only am I ashamed to say I've never read any Doris Lessing, I didn't know she was a former member of the South African Communist Party nor an anti-colonialist activist in f$!%ing Rhodesia...

[Gives clenched fist salute]


Nice link to Anti-caste Doodlebug, and you should definitely read Doris Lessing's sci-fi-esque/dys-utopian speculative fiction pentad.


Duly noted, thanks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You know, on-line politroll arguments here on Paizo.com have, without a doubt, widenend my horizons. I know, I know, everyone thinks that Doodlebug Anklebiter knows every commie website in existence but, honestly, I usually find them while googling whatever it is we're arguing about. If it wasn't for these debates I'd still be just reading Counterpunch and Workers Vanguard.

Which is a long way of saying: Paizo.com politrolls rock!

Anyway, Comrade Dwarf might've mentioned her before, or one of the other Aussies, but

Lizzie Ahern, Socialist Agitator

The Exchange

Bigger fan of Dorothy Day myself.


Crimson Jester wrote:
Bigger fan of Dorothy Day myself.

Five Catholics acquitted of disorderly conduct at N.Y. drone base

And they're already back at it. Today's Democracy Now! broadcast reports that Ms. Grady and two others were again arrested at Hancock Field Air National Guard Base.

Beat swords into ploughshares--after we expropriate the bourgeoisie!
Vive le Galt!


I'm not sure; I'm just working the synergistic weirdiosity angle.

EDIT: Aargh! Where'd you go?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Marxism, Intersectionality and White Skin Privilege

Mostly just posting here to bookmark the following articles, which I haven't necessarily read all the way through:

Black Feminism and Intersectionality

I am a Woman and a Human: A Marxist-Feminist Critique of Intersectionality Theory

Exiting the Vampire Castle which spawned about a half-dozen replies on the same website

Is there a white skin privilege? which also spawned a ton of replies

Including one they deigned not to publish: A Response to the ISO: White Skin Privilege and Marxism? by BRIAN KWOBA

A lot of shiznit to go through, I admit, and probably of not much interest to anyone other than me, but initial impressions:

1) I am happy to see that many of the points in the Sharon Smith piece I've been talking about over the past couple of years here on Paizo.com. Autodidacticism for the win!

2) I never had much use for "white skin privilege" theory, but I was hedging my bets because of its roots in the work of Noel Ignatiev and Theodore W. Allen. Now that I've learned that the Peggy McIntosh school shares nothing in common with the Ignatin/Allen school other than a name, I feel much more confident in my original take that "white skin privilege" theory is little more than white guilt liberal middle-class academicism to make its practitioners feel better about their oppressor selves.

3) In Brian Kwoba's piece he quotes the ISOer as writing that woman's oppression is rooted in capitalism. The ISOer may have written that (I haven't had time to double-check yet), but any Marxist worth his salt knows that woman's oppression is rooted in class society, of which capitalism is only the latest stage.

Vive le Galt!


Oh, and I headline I just saw:

Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law


Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:

Oh, and I headline I just saw:

Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law

That would have gotten a whisky tango foxtrot out of texas but MICHIGAN!?!??!?


Yeah, srly. Samnell, WTF?!?

Sovereign Court

Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:

Oh, and I headline I just saw:

Michigan 'Rape Insurance' Bill Passes Into Law

Wow . . .

Silver Crusade

Thank you, rich white conservative men, for your wise guidance.


I was working in my truck the day after Nelson Mandela died, and my Tamil union brother came to help out and struck up a rather farcical conversation.

[Foregoes the attempt to render his accent phonetically but it's very thick. I'll also leave out most of the "Huh?s" "What?"s and "Say that again"s]

Spoiler:
"Hey, Doodlebug, did you see the news from South Africa?"

"Yeah, I did."

"I was watching it on tv and, wow, all those South Africans look the same, huh?"

"Jesus Christ, Yippin! Why you gotta be such a f!$$ing racist?"

"No, no, I'm just saying in India there's all kinds of different colors, but in South Africa they're all so black."

"Man, what the f!#!?!? What are you going to do, join the Klan?"

"Huh?"

"You know, the Klan, are you going to join the Ku Klux Klan?"

"No, I already have a family."

Desperately trying to change the subject I asked, "Hey, Yippin, what caste are you?"

"Huh?"

"Caste? What caste? Are you a dalit?"

"What?"

[Tries two or three different pronunciations of "dalit" without success]

"You know, an untouchable?"

"No, no, we don't do that anymore, we got rid of that."

"So, you don't have a caste?"

"I am in the Vaishya caste."

"And your wife?"

"She's a Vaishya, too."

"And you had an arranged marriage, right?"

"Yes."

"So you don't do caste anymore, huh?"

[Yippin desperately tries to change the subject]

Which is a long way to say that he needed me to get him a month off next summer so he could chaperone his college-bound daughter around Madras for a month to get her acculturated to life in India.

Also, she's a traditional dance student and he was very proud that she had gotten the okay from her dance master (mistress?) to perform in Madras in a ceremony that, from what I could tell, was part coming-of-age ritual, part debutante's ball.

Which is a long way of saying,

OHWFA!


Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:


OHWFA!

I'm so almost there, but the nose rings just break me.


I like all the eyebrow waggling.

And her feet.

Sovereign Court

I don't know, if she was done up like that all time time it would take some getting used to, but she is very beautiful. I think the problem is that we in North America aren't really used to nose rings in polite society and that's maybe why we find it off putting sometimes. I have more problems with the make-up she has on then the nose ring myself. Still many Indian women are absolutely gorgeous.


You're all crazy.

[Goes and gets The Kama Sutra to flip through while watching some more dancing]

EDIT: Woah. If you get bored, you philistines, skip to about 14:15.

Sovereign Court

Interesting facts about the Kama Sutra from QI:

"Only about 20% of the Kama Sutra (all confined to one section out of seven) discusses sexual positions. The remainder offers guidance on how to be a good citizen, provides insights into relationships between men and women, and gives tips on a wide range of activities such as: Tattooing; The art of making beds; Playing on musical glasses filled with water; Making lemonades; Solving word puzzles; Knowledge of mines and quarries; The art of cock fighting and the art of teaching parrots and starlings to speak. Nine pages are devoted to the care of wives, but there are 26 pages on how to seduce other men’s wives.

The original book was not illustrated and was a compilation of earlier works. The author was a celibate Indian sage called Vatsyayana who lived sometime between the 1st and 6th Century. Sometimes a moral tone distances the book from what is being described. For example, oral sex is denounced as immoral before detailed instructions are laid out on how to perform it."

BTW, if you've never heard of QI, and you like learning about a wide range of things, you really owe yourself to watch it. They're on about their 11th season at the moment.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

First off, QI is teh awesome, as is Stephen Fry.

Secondly, in response to the news about the rape insurance bill:
Shouldn't guys be the ones getting the insurance? Making women buy rape insurance is like making everyone BUT drivers buy car insurance.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Meatrace, while I applaud the attempt; remember, you are trying to apply common sense to the idea of Rape Insurance...

An attempt doomed to failure from the start I fear.


If we allow corporations and businesses to opt out of insurance policies based on religious beliefs, I want to sell lemonade at the line to sign up for christian scientists.

Sovereign Court

meatrace wrote:

First off, QI is teh awesome, as is Stephen Fry.

Secondly, in response to the news about the rape insurance bill:
Shouldn't guys be the ones getting the insurance? Making women buy rape insurance is like making everyone BUT drivers buy car insurance.

Hey, we haven't always seen eye to eye, but those are two things I agree with: Stephen Fry and QI being awesome, and a great response to a ridiculous law.


No one ever sees eye to eye with me; I'm very very tall.

Sovereign Court

I'm 6'2 and own a 5ft step ladder.


Well, (while stupid) it's not really rape insurance. What it is saying is that state subsidized insurance won't cover abortions unless an additional rider is added in the case of rape or danger to the mother. Now, I think abortions should be covered, personally, but I'm fairly certain that most private insurers don't cover it now. This isn't even really a change. Thankfully the cost is kept down thanks to not for profits etc. This is all stupid politics as usual. Conservatives pandering by passing a law that changes nothing, and Liberals reframing the issue to make it look bigger than it is. I'm thinking I may join Doodlebug's side. Viva le Galt.

As to the video the Goblin posted above, I dated a girl whose grandmother was an Indian who met her grandfather while the British were still there and then emigrated to the U.S. Gorgeous woman, and her father was in The Ozark Mountain Daredevils. She had great skin tone and a really wonderful texture to her hair... OHFWA!


Re-reading the article, Comrade Barrister, it doesn't look like it's just state-subsidized insurance. I also don't know if "most" private insurers don't cover it, but no private insurance in Missouri covers it...because it's banned by law.

But it's true, there's been a pretty huge move to get abortion services knocked out of Obamacare.


Hmm.

The Michigan measure bans abortion coverage in plans both on and off the exchanges except when the mother’s life is at risk.


MeanDM wrote:
Well, (while stupid) it's not really rape insurance. What it is saying is that state subsidized insurance won't cover abortions unless an additional rider is added in the case of rape or danger to the mother. Now, I think abortions should be covered, personally, but I'm fairly certain that most private insurers don't cover it now. This isn't even really a change. Thankfully the cost is kept down thanks to not for profits etc. This is all stupid politics as usual. Conservatives pandering by passing a law that changes nothing, and Liberals reframing the issue to make it look bigger than it is. I'm thinking I may join Doodlebug's side. Viva le Galt.

Actually most insurance companies will cover abortions. Many good employer plans will cover it. Except when there are state laws banning it, of course.

Even some that don't cover elective abortions will cover it in cases of rape, incest or for the woman's health.

This isn't anywhere as close to changing nothing as you make it out to be.


Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:

Re-reading the article, Comrade Barrister, it doesn't look like it's just state-subsidized insurance. I also don't know if "most" private insurers don't cover it, but no private insurance in Missouri covers it...because it's banned by law.

But it's true, there's been a pretty huge move to get abortion services knocked out of Obamacare.

That's a point I hadn't thought about. I know that the insurance I was aware of here didn't cover it even before that law. But I suppose in more liberal parts of the country there may be more pressure on the companies to provide coverage. *shrug*. I'll try to find the actual proposed bill and report back. Regardless I know two things:

1. Insurance companies are awful, horrible institutions; and
2. I agree it's a medical procedure and should be covered.


thejeff wrote:
MeanDM wrote:
Well, (while stupid) it's not really rape insurance. What it is saying is that state subsidized insurance won't cover abortions unless an additional rider is added in the case of rape or danger to the mother. Now, I think abortions should be covered, personally, but I'm fairly certain that most private insurers don't cover it now. This isn't even really a change. Thankfully the cost is kept down thanks to not for profits etc. This is all stupid politics as usual. Conservatives pandering by passing a law that changes nothing, and Liberals reframing the issue to make it look bigger than it is. I'm thinking I may join Doodlebug's side. Viva le Galt.

Actually most insurance companies will cover abortions. Many good employer plans will cover it. Except when there are state laws banning it, of course.

Even some that don't cover elective abortions will cover it in cases of rape, incest or for the woman's health.

This isn't anywhere as close to changing nothing as you make it out to be.

I dashed that off without enough thought. My guess about lack of coverage is just that. I'm tempted to do some research to see if I'm right or not. (My guess is I am, but only based on my experience with insurance companies risk management techniques). However I frankly enough hope my knee jerk reaction was wrong. Regardless if it wasn't clear I think it's bad lawmaking.

The Exchange

MeanDM wrote:
Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:

Re-reading the article, Comrade Barrister, it doesn't look like it's just state-subsidized insurance. I also don't know if "most" private insurers don't cover it, but no private insurance in Missouri covers it...because it's banned by law.

But it's true, there's been a pretty huge move to get abortion services knocked out of Obamacare.

That's a point I hadn't thought about. I know that the insurance I was aware of here didn't cover it even before that law. But I suppose in more liberal parts of the country there may be more pressure on the companies to provide coverage. *shrug*. I'll try to find the actual proposed bill and report back. Regardless I know two things:

1. Insurance companies are awful, horrible institutions; and
2. I agree it's a medical procedure and should be covered.

A nose job is a medical procedure too. It is overwhelmingly an elective procedure so i see no issue with it not being covered unless absolutely required for the womans health.


Do state governments ban insurance companies from covering rhinoplasty?

The Exchange

Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:
Do state governments ban insurance companies from covering rhinoplasty?

Fair enough, it should be up to the companies to choose. Then again obamacare is all about taking the choices out if the hands of providers and consumers


Then again, the law under discussion has nothing to do with Obamacare.


Andrew R wrote:


A nose job is a medical procedure too. It is overwhelmingly an elective procedure so i see no issue with it not being covered unless absolutely required for the womans health.

A nose job is not necessary to avoid 9 months of vomiting, nausea, diarrhea, gas, incontinence, hemorrhoids, weight gain, followed by intense pain, gallons of water rushing out of you and a very dangerous medical procedure of forcing a 9 pound object out of your body.

If we do not get to choose to pay a company then the company doesn't get to choose what to cover because if they did they would cover nothing.

This is going to get overturned faster than you can say interstate trade.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
This is going to get overturned faster than you can say interstate trade.

I wouldn't be so sure.

"But Michigan is hardly the only state that bars women from using their insurance plans to cover abortion care. It’s not even the only one that doesn’t make any exceptions for rape victims. On the contrary, this is actually quite a common policy on the state level." (the link in the reply to Comrade Barrister under "banned by law")

The Exchange

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Andrew R wrote:


A nose job is a medical procedure too. It is overwhelmingly an elective procedure so i see no issue with it not being covered unless absolutely required for the womans health.

A nose job is not necessary to avoid 9 months of vomiting, nausea, diarrhea, gas, incontinence, hemorrhoids, weight gain, followed by intense pain, gallons of water rushing out of you and a very dangerous medical procedure of forcing a 9 pound object out of your body.

If we do not get to choose to pay a company then the company doesn't get to choose what to cover because if they did they would cover nothing.

This is going to get overturned faster than you can say interstate trade.

. And funky noses never happen largely from activities we choose to do.ideally someone that gives a damn about our rights will overturn obamacare and we can go back to choosing what if anything we want.


Andrew R wrote:
And funky noses never happen largely from activities we choose to do.

This argument is bunk because there's no exception for rape.

Quote:
ideally someone that gives a damn about our rights will overturn obamacare and we can go back to choosing what if anything we want.

Good luck with that. Neither party does.


MeanDM wrote:
I dashed that off without enough thought. My guess about lack of coverage is just that. I'm tempted to do some research to see if I'm right or not. (My guess is I am, but only based on my experience with insurance companies risk management techniques). However I frankly enough hope my knee jerk reaction was wrong. Regardless if it wasn't clear I think it's bad lawmaking.

Actually from the insurance companies point of view, and leaving political risks out of it, covering abortion is probably close to free. While some abortions, generally the late term, medically necessary ones, are fairly expensive, they're still much cheapen than childbirth and the care that goes along with it. The only real question is what percentage of their customers would wind up paying for it themselves.


Andrew R wrote:
MeanDM wrote:
Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:

Re-reading the article, Comrade Barrister, it doesn't look like it's just state-subsidized insurance. I also don't know if "most" private insurers don't cover it, but no private insurance in Missouri covers it...because it's banned by law.

But it's true, there's been a pretty huge move to get abortion services knocked out of Obamacare.

That's a point I hadn't thought about. I know that the insurance I was aware of here didn't cover it even before that law. But I suppose in more liberal parts of the country there may be more pressure on the companies to provide coverage. *shrug*. I'll try to find the actual proposed bill and report back. Regardless I know two things:

1. Insurance companies are awful, horrible institutions; and
2. I agree it's a medical procedure and should be covered.

A nose job is a medical procedure too. It is overwhelmingly an elective procedure so i see no issue with it not being covered unless absolutely required for the womans health.

So is childbirth. No reason to cover that either, right?


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Andrew R wrote:
And funky noses never happen largely from activities we choose to do.

This argument is bunk because there's no exception for rape.

Quote:
ideally someone that gives a damn about our rights will overturn obamacare and we can go back to choosing what if anything we want.
Good luck with that. Neither party does.

I believe there's no exception for the health of the woman either. Only "life is in danger".

And if the Republicans get back into power and repeal Obamacare, a) it won't affect this law at all, and b) many people will go back to choosing what, if anything, they can afford.

The Exchange

i say to hell with all insurance and just pay for what you want/need and to hell with helping cover everyone elses ass at the expense of those not using the insurance.


Well, since we're all going to take Citizen R.'s bait...

I, too, say to hell with all insurance! Medical care should be free at the point of delivery!

Down with Obamacare!
Vive le Galt!

The Exchange

Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:

Well, since we're all going to take Citizen R.'s bait...

I, too, say to hell with all insurance! Medical care should be free at the point of delivery!

Down with Obamacare!
Vive le Galt!

What bait. you want something you get it. You don't want it you dont. I need to find a way to make you commies get me a new car if you expect me to help pay for your stuff. It is a need, fair is fair after all.


Andrew R wrote:
i say to hell with all insurance and just pay for what you want/need and to hell with helping cover everyone elses ass at the expense of those not using the insurance.

Well here's the problem.

I don't have enough money to pay for cancer out of pocket. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't either (since it costs a LOT more than getting to gen con, even if you live at the north pole). Hospitals, morally, can't just let people die, so they have to provide the coverage but that money has to come from somewhere. Private charity is NOT nearly enough to cover it. So what happens if we get seriously ill?

The government is the only one with the resources to avoid the 45 caliber solution. The problem isn't that the government covers this, but that it covers it in a regressive manner that has us flipping as much of the bill as donald trump.


Michigan passes a law banning insurance companies, on the exchanges or not, from covering abortion, you start biznitching about nosejobs and Obamacare.

Which, I agree, sucks (well, Obamacare anyway, I have no position on nosejobs), but, still, it has nothing to do with Michigan rape insurance.

But I apologize for calling it bait. Vituperate away, angry misanthropic everyman poster!

The Exchange

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Andrew R wrote:
i say to hell with all insurance and just pay for what you want/need and to hell with helping cover everyone elses ass at the expense of those not using the insurance.

Well here's the problem.

I don't have enough money to pay for cancer out of pocket. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't either (since it costs a LOT more than getting to gen con, even if you live at the north pole). Hospitals, morally, can't just let people die, so they have to provide the coverage but that money has to come from somewhere. Private charity is NOT nearly enough to cover it. So what happens if we get seriously ill?

The government is the only one with the resources to avoid the 45 caliber solution. The problem isn't that the government covers this, but that it covers it in a regressive manner that has us flipping as much of the bill as donald trump.

i would not be opposed to the governemt offering some kind of catastrophic injury/illness aid. but what we are getting now is just terrible


Andrew R wrote:

I would not be opposed to the governemt offering some kind of catastrophic injury/illness aid. but what we are getting now is just terrible

Ok, but back on topic this bill says insurance companies CANNOT roll this coverage into its regular services. So in what way is anyone made any more free by this law? The insurance company is banned from a business practice and a woman is effectively forced to pay more.

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