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One of my absolute favorite spells to cast in the game is Silent Image due to it's versatility. However, one of the dangers of the spell is that if your foe has Spellcraft, he can make a DC 16 Spellcraft roll (Which takes no action and isn't difficult for a caster) to identify your spell...as Silent Image. At which point, he then knows that whatever you create is an illusion and should either automatically disbelieve or at least get the +4 bonus.
Which lead to wonder. Does a Wand of Silent Image have the same limitation? Wands don't require handwaving and incantations, they just require you to point the wand and say the trigger word.
So my question is, can an enemy caster use Spellcraft to identify a spell being cast by a wand in the same way that they can identify a spell being cast normally?
Watch yourself guys. This is the Rules questions area.
In my experience, nothing matters here but R.A.W.
Not opinion, not real-world fact, not the "way you always do it", not your insight or experience, nothing but R.A.W.
Elamdri, if you would like to talk about your opinion on the rules elsewhere on the forum (Gamer Talk, perhaps), I believe that is encouraged, I just thought I might warn you that doing so here will only draw fire.
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The rules say "you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast", not the spellcaster.
It can imply that what allow someone to identify it is its aspect in its starting moments, while it take shape, and not the caster gestures, verbalizations or its components.
As there aren't modifiers for the presence or absence of the different V,S and M components while casting a spell there is even some further support to that interpretation.
Using that interpretation casting a spell from a wand, scroll or staff wouldn't change he spellcraft check.
Honestly I am not convinced that that was the idea behind the choice of the words when describing how spellcraft work, but generally I am in favour of allowing the identification of a spell cast by a wand/staff/scroll with the same DC as identifying a spell cast by hand.
Silent image is a first level spell and it should be relatively easy to identify its use. Making spell cast by a wand non identifiable will benefit more low level spells then high level spells, the exact opposite of how spellcraft work.
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Notice that, by RAW, there is nothing that say that all the spellcaster use the same gestures to cast the same spell.
Actually the rules imply the opposite, as a spellcaster with a weapon focus will be brandishing his weapon, probably in his preferred hand and gesturing with his free hand, one with a ring could be using one or 2 hands, depending if he is carrying something in the other hand, a arcane duelist bard with a 2-handed weapon could be weaving his weapon focus in both hands while casting, and so on, with countless variations.
So it is questionable if the person using spellcraft is identifying the gestures or the spell itself.
I read another thread on this same subject about four months ago as it was developing here. It ended with the guys quoting enough R.A.W. at us to bury a train.
I am of the same opinion as you are on this particular question.
Long-story-short, it came down to "a spell was cast", so..."a spellcraft roll can be made".
Invisibility effects didnt matter.
Silence effects didnt matter.
Only R.A.W.
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I read another thread on this same subject about four months ago as it was developing here. It ended with the guys quoting enough R.A.W. at us to bury a train.
I am of the same opinion as you are on this particular question.
Long-story-short, it came down to "a spell was cast", so..."a spellcraft roll can be made".
Invisibility effects didnt matter.
Silence effects didnt matter.
Only R.A.W.
Actually invisibility matter as it modify your perception checks: "this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors", so it give a +20 to the Dc of identifying the spell.
Hi, Diego, the guys I was talking with before basically said that improved invisibility made the caster invisible, but not the spell.
The spell description even seemed to support it considering the spell being cast comes after the initial casting of the improved invisibility.
I could definitely get behind a +20 to the DC though.
Good Question, Elamdri. I believe it would allow a save at a bonus.
In this section of the forums the rules are always right.
So....auto-pass for saves against a correctly identified silent image spell then, with a possible +20 modifier on the DC to ID the spell when cast by invisible casters.
I wouldn't allow a spellcraft check to identify a spell from a spell trigger item, but I would from a spell completion item.
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed
Spell craft: Action: Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast
My take, this is not 'when the spell energy is being released' but 'when the caster is taking the action to cast the spell' which wands and staves do not require you to do. You are "activating a magic item" not "casting a spell" which spell completion items call out that you are.
Just my take on it... I'd say, at best, RAW is ambiguous on this.