Question on the lvl 2 Rebuild Rule


Pathfinder Society

Liberty's Edge

So I understand that in Society, you are allowed to rebuild a character up to level 2 and keep all your loot and whatnot when you do. This being to help players iron out the kinks in their character.

Well I'm in a bit of a pickle. I've got my newest character, a Kitsune Sorcerer, and she's level 2 already. This is due to my attributing a lvl 1 Module to her (played the PreGen Cleric), thus making her lvl 2 before I even had a chance to test her out and see how she worked mechanically.

So what I am wondering is if the rebuild rules are a hard "Up to level 2" or more of a "You have three games to rebuild" kinda thing.

1/5

Unfortunately, the rule is based on level, not number of games played. Once you've played the character at 2nd level, you're locked in.

Sovereign Court

My understanding of the rule is you can rebuild your character, before you play your character at a level above 1st.

So, in your case, if you've already played the character as a character who is 2nd level, then you're stuck with the character as is. However, if you haven't yet played your Sorcerer as a 2nd level character, then you can still rebuild him/her.

Liberty's Edge

Well, that kinda bites. Should have played my Gunslinger last game then to give myself time to iron out the Sorcerer.

*Annoyed but resigned grumbling*

Liberty's Edge

Entilzha wrote:

My understanding of the rule is you can rebuild your character, before you play your character at a level above 1st.

So, in your case, if you've already played the character as a character who is 2nd level, then you're stuck with the character as is. However, if you haven't yet played your Sorcerer as a 2nd level character, then you can still rebuild him/her.

Well I first played her as a level 2. I would have played her for the module, but we needed a cleric and an Illusion/Enchantment Sorcerer isn't quite the right fit. As I did a pregen, I attributed the module to her, making her lvl 2 before I had even played her in a game once.

Shadow Lodge

1st-Level Character Retraining

Pathfinder Society is all about player choices and living with those choices once you’ve made them. However, at the start of a Pathfinder’s career, you are allowed to adjust your character before settling in for the long haul. Before you level up a character for the first time, you may change any aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number. Changes may only be made between adventures and before playing as a character above 1st level. Any exceptions will be noted in the Pathfinder Society FAQ. You are able to keep all treasure, Prestige Points, special boons, and XP that you have earned and apply them to the character once you retrain as long as the character meets the criteria above.

Note the bold part of the rule, you can only rebuild before you have played beyond first level (I have linked the document containing the rule as well just in case).

The only way to rebuild her now is if she is illegal, such as if you lacked the kitsune boon.

1/5

A quick question, did your character just hit 3 xp? Or does your character now have more than 3 xp?

Liberty's Edge

Joshua Hirtz wrote:
A quick question, did your character just hit 3 xp? Or does your character now have more than 3 xp?

Well now she hit 4 xp 'cause of the game I played last night.

Suppose in hindsight this was a foolish question for me to ask >.>

But at least I know now.

And knowing is half the battle.

Sovereign Court

Not to try and derail the thread or anything but what exactly do you feel was wrong with your character out of curiosity?

Liberty's Edge

Morgen wrote:

Not to try and derail the thread or anything but what exactly do you feel was wrong with your character out of curiosity?

The traits I took (Switch Two-World Magic for Reactionary) and a a little of the Ability Score distribution. Was gonna cut back on my Dex and boost my Charisma to 20 (well 18 but with racial mods).

1/5

The foolish questions are the ones unasked. If you feel like something is not fully clear or could be misinterpreted, it does not hurt to ask for some clarification.

In this particular case you might actually be able to rebuild your character. Considering the fact that you have not actually played a game as a second level character with this character I do believe you are allowed to retrain under the 1st-Level Retraining rule. I say this after finding the following post by Michael Brock:

Michael Brock wrote:
Curaigh wrote:
This was a small debate that I am not sure got answered. The way I see it, if the character has not been played at level 2, it is rebuildable (guide says before you 'level' not before you have reached a certain 'XP').
As long as the rebuild is done before a game is played as level 2, then it is rebuildable. If it becomes a problem with people gaming the system in bad ways, we will just change the wording in the Guide to advise it has to be rebuilt with 3 xps or less period. For now, I have seen no problems with it.

I have not done a thorough search to see if this particular ruling was overturned and I have not checked the current wording, but from this particular post it seems that you could retrain your character despite the fact you have 4 xp merely because you have not actually played a scenerio as a second level character yet.

Dark Archive

He's said multiple times that he's played one game with the character, at level 2.

5/5 *

Honestly, I dont think the trait and ability score switch would be that big a deal to play it as-is instead of trying to swap it. Might make it more interesting having to play it as it is too. I'm assuming your charisma is 18 now, and you want it at 20? If so, absolutely do not worry about it. +1 to DC of spells is not the end of the world.

If it is, just "retire" this character and start a new ones with the traits and ability scores you want. You would be out of the lvl 1 mod chronicle (but lvl 1 mods are re-playable anyway) and one scenario. The Kitsune boon would be the worst part about the deal though...

Just throwing ideas out there.

1/5

Oh, I must of skimmed a bit too quickly. I thought the last character that had been played was the cleric pregen. Sorry about that.

Sovereign Court

I actually would suggest against the idea of stuffing your charisma up to 20. That's a huge investment of your stats for honestly not really any substantial gain while likely giving up quite a lot. Your sorcerer will be better off in the long run without a 20 Charisma. n.n;

Two-World Magic actually...is kind of a cool trait. I could see wanting an initiative bonus but that other one sounds fun. Especially for Sorcerers as they get so many cantrips known over time.

5/5

I'll echo CRobledo's idea that little things like a trait or +2 Cha don't make that much difference. The first character I created is level 12 now and has some things that I would have changed if I could have, but it didn't really matter in the end. He even has a trait that was never, ever useful (attuned to the ancestors).

4/5 *

I actually like my characters to have 20's in their casting stat if they're a caster (and if casting is their main shtick), but it most certainly is not required and will not make or break a character. And honestly, having some of the other stats higher will help make your character more rounded and may even prove useful.

Grand Lodge

It is a major mistake to try to front load an attribute to 20 at first level, because the only way you can do that is by crippling yourself in other areas.

You can live without the 20 at first level, you really don't need it.And you're more likely to survive to those other levels when it would be useful.

Grand Lodge 4/5

LazarX wrote:

It is a major mistake to try to front load an attribute to 20 at first level, because the only way you can do that is by crippling yourself in other areas.

You can live without the 20 at first level, you really don't need it.And you're more likely to survive to those other levels when it would be useful.

There's very few ways to increase the DCs of your spells. For a caster, the higher stat is a significant factor to their effectiveness.

At the end of the day, however, it's a matter of personal taste.

Scarab Sages 5/5

I'm with Jonathan Cary on this.
The 20 caster stat is ... great. esp. at lower levels.
The extra 1st level spell at first level - and it just follows you as you get head bands. A +2 headband means an extra 2nd level spell, a +4 headband means another 3nd level etc. Yeah, it's totally worth it.

(and being able to say "Yeah, my Alchemist does 6 HP in splash damage" at 1st level? Priceless.)

"At the end of the day, however, it's a matter of personal taste." is very true.

Shadow Lodge

The Toaster wrote:
(and being able to say "Yeah, my Alchemist does 6 HP in splash damage" at 1st level? Priceless.)

I hope you enjoy saying that, because that 20 Int means you have a crappy Dex, so good luck hitting anything directly. (And you better be close to your target, because you're off target by a number of squares equal to the range increment; second increment and beyond and you're lucky if ANYTHING is in the splash...)

5/5

It's almost as though different people enjoyed doing different things with their characters!

Scarab Sages 5/5

SCPRedMage wrote:
The Toaster wrote:
(and being able to say "Yeah, my Alchemist does 6 HP in splash damage" at 1st level? Priceless.)
I hope you enjoy saying that, because that 20 Int means you have a crappy Dex, so good luck hitting anything directly. (And you better be close to your target, because you're off target by a number of squares equal to the range increment; second increment and beyond and you're lucky if ANYTHING is in the splash...)

LOL! actually, your almost right, I do try to make to with my 16 Dex. (yeah, 1st level.) He's an elf, so the 16 cost 5pts, and the 20 cost 17, so I did need to dump something (was CHA in his case).

Added to this is the fact that his Mutagen is DEX, so normally he has a DEX in combat of 20... and his normal extract is Reduce Person, so he often has a dex of 22... so in the BBE combat he could have a plus to hit of +7, +8 with point Blank Shot (but I took Splash Weapon Mastery for his first level feat). I guess this is ok at 1st level? for a BAB 0 character that only needs to hit touch?

Currently he's 10th level, so he does a bit more ... but his Int with the +6 headband is 30 (24 +6 magic +2 Profane bonuses), so he does 15 with the splash damage. Just click the name The Toaster to see how bad his stats are....

Shadow Lodge

The Toaster wrote:
SCPRedMage wrote:
The Toaster wrote:
(and being able to say "Yeah, my Alchemist does 6 HP in splash damage" at 1st level? Priceless.)
I hope you enjoy saying that, because that 20 Int means you have a crappy Dex, so good luck hitting anything directly. (And you better be close to your target, because you're off target by a number of squares equal to the range increment; second increment and beyond and you're lucky if ANYTHING is in the splash...)

LOL! actually, your almost right, I do try to make to with my 16 Dex. (yeah, 1st level.) He's an elf, so the 16 cost 5pts, and the 20 cost 17, so I did need to dump something (was CHA in his case).

Added to this is the fact that his Mutagen is DEX, so normally he has a DEX in combat of 20... and his normal extract is Reduce Person, so he often has a dex of 22... so in the BBE combat he could have a plus to hit of +7, +8 with point Blank Shot (but I took Splash Weapon Mastery for his first level feat). I guess this is ok at 1st level? for a BAB 0 character that only needs to hit touch?

Currently he's 10th level, so he does a bit more ... but his Int with the +6 headband is 30 (24 +6 magic +2 Profane bonuses), so he does 15 with the splash damage. Just click the name The Toaster to see how bad his stats are....

My gnomish alchemist has a 16 Dex, too; he rarely has problems hitting (most of his attack rolls end up being "not 1" checks), particularly with a mutagen and Reduce Person going; not only does his Dex hit 22, his AC goes up to 25, which has the (hilarious) result of him taunting all the martial enemies.

Of course, he just hit level 4, so now he gets to throw in Cat's Grace.


Some people will believe that their way is the only way and will make judgement calls and tell you that the way you're doing something is wrong and won't work. Believe in yourself and you're character, understand your weaknesses and play to your strengths; if something does go wrong, it's OK, you've learned something and you can become more effective.

Snide remarks about how effective someone is, without knowing anything about that their character is childish and borderline jerk. Don't be one.

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