Can you suggest a better archer?

[james maissen]

Elosandi wrote:

Even archers are limited to only a standard action + swift action in the surprise round.

Not in PF. You'll notice the level 5 archer I posted has the teamwork feat 'lookout' as does his mount.

In situations where another archer would be surprised (no actions), he is sadly limited to a partial, in which case a buffing action or a ready against casting is reasonable.. but when he isn't surprised he gets a full round action in the surprise round. It's a wonderful feat for archers, especially those with perception as a class skill.

So let us consider that we are now limited to this situation where not only is there a surprise round, but you are also surprised by it. This is a very narrow case, and a far cry from the claim that a 3/4BAB can be overcome because they can spend a standard action in the first round to cast divine favor/power.

As to the summoner.. sure give yourself 2 rounds to self-buff then you will be great.. for the mop up, because those first two rounds are the most important in the combat. Mind you spending the first round casting haste is not a bad action (depending on the party), but the real archer will be the one receiving the haste rather than granting it.

If you plan for your first round's action to be doing something other than shooting, then you are not an archer. Rather you are that something other that later supplements it with arrows. Archers shoot first. Put another way.. in terms of characters there are those that are Han Solo, and there are those that are Greedo. Shoot first. An archer brings damage to the table. In general he does not bring combat presence (AOO, control, etc) like a melee damage dealer would, so he has to deliver damage better as he is bringing less to the table.

-James

[The black raven]

james maissen wrote:

Elosandi wrote:

Even archers are limited to only a standard action + swift action in the surprise round.

Not in PF. You'll notice the level 5 archer I posted has the teamwork feat 'lookout' as does his mount.

In situations where another archer would be surprised (no actions), he is sadly limited to a partial, in which case a buffing action or a ready against casting is reasonable.. but when he isn't surprised he gets a full round action in the surprise round. It's a wonderful feat for archers, especially those with perception as a class skill.

-James

Most in agreement here. It gets even worse/better if you are playing a spell-less ranger (I do in RotRL) who gets sneak attack too.

We once were ambushed by a Ogrekin Rogue. I made my Perception roll and so did my Griffon AC. And we won initiative, thanks to my favored terrain bonuses. One archery full-attack and a pounce later, only shreds were left. The surprise round ended, but then so did the encounter.