The arrows/bolts are in a quiver.O.O
It just occurred to me that my character probably has three empty quivers just lying around somewhere...
Yeah, quivers can get quite silly. My current Wayang archer loadout pre-scenario is:
Small:
100 arrows - 5 quivers?
20 adamantine coated arrow - 1 quiver
20 ghost salt coated arrows - 1 quiver
20 whistling arrows - 1 quiver
20 blunt arrows - 1 quiver
10 thistle arrows - 1 quiver?
Medium:
60 arrows - 3 quivers?
Might be time to get an efficient quiver? But it only holds 60 arrows :(
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Cars come with a tank of gas, but bows don't come with arrows!
When I play an archer I usually assume I have 1 quiver of 20 arrows out and ready to go, and the others rolled away and stored in a handy haversack or bag of holding. Up until level 7 or so, you're pretty unlikely to go through more than 20 arrows in an encounter. At level 7 or beyond you should get an efficient quiver.
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Cars come with a tank of gas, but bows don't come with arrows!
When I play an archer I usually assume I have 1 quiver of 20 arrows out and ready to go, and the others rolled away and stored in a handy haversack or bag of holding. Up until level 7 or so, you're pretty unlikely to go through more than 20 arrows in an encounter. At level 7 or beyond you should get an efficient quiver.
Depends on the encounter, and your allies.
Level 5, Fighter speced to archer (not the archetype), Human
Str 16 +3
Dex 19 +4 (16 +2 racial, +1 level 4)
Feats:
Point Blank Shot (H)
Precise Shot (L1)
Weapon Focus: Longbow (F1)
Rapid Shot (F2)
Deadly Aim (L3)
Weapon Specialization: Longbow (F4)
Point Blank Master: Longbow (F5)
+1 Composite longbow (Str +3)
2 attacks per round, 3 if the 5th level Wizard casts Haste
So, if the combat goes over 6 rounds, it is possible to use more than 20 arrows in a single encounter, and that at only 5th level.
At a higher level, I actually shot my archer out of normal arrows inthe first encounter. 47 arrows + in the first encounter.
Of course, that was before the days of Abundant Ammunition and weapon blanches. Fortunately, he had additional arrows past plain vanilla available, since that scenario didn't have any time in it to hit the store, once the adventure started. Blunt arrows, cold iron arrows, not sure what else he had at the time, but I think he was almost dry of arrows by the end.
Edited to correct math.
Might be time to get an efficient quiver? But it only holds 60 arrows :(
That's why my bard has 3 efficient quivers, with random arrows covered in ghost salt for those times when you fight those ever-so-common bearded devils ghosts with stoneskin. Joking of course, but seriously he's ready for that...
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Had an archer playing in a game of Rats of Round Mountain Part I that I was GM'ing.
He was constantly pulling out the right arrow for the DR (after of course making the knowledge check) of the various creatures. And he was firing like 4 or 5 arrows a round.
I asked him how many of each type he had.
He said he had 50 adamantine, 50 cold iron, 50 blunt, 50 silver, and a crapload normal.
I'm like how the hell are you carrying all those arrows and have ALL of them available like they are all in a quiver.
I told him he could not have over 300 arrows immediately available. That he had to pick 60 arrows (3 quivers; 1 back and 1 on each hip) that he could immediately access, and the rest were stowed away in his backpack.
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Well I know efficent quivers are the bomb.. my fighter, gunslinger and wizard each have one... not that any of them carry 300+ arrows.
The fighter gets the best use out of it.. having special material weapons, javelins and arrows.
The wizard uses it to store bolts, crossbow, 3 wands and a metamagic rod.
The gunslinger carries her melee weapons (never used), Musket and a single wand. (I don't see being able to carry bullets/powder in it, much less the many alchemical items I use.. so.. I'm looking to getting one of the endless bandliers for that soon)
I know one local player (who is making a bow style ranger)who is planning on two quivers (not there yet) but is also thinking of bringing along a wand of abundant ammo to cut down on costs.
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OK, I'm curious here.
Efficient Quiver:
This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about 20 arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to 18 objects of the same general size and shape as a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what's placed inside it.
First slot holds 60 arrows - self-explanatory
Second slot holds 18 javalin-sized items. Why wouldn't it be able to hold 18 (or more) arrows instead? Same for the third slot.
I am wondering because I assumed it could.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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That he had to pick 60 arrows (3 quivers; 1 back and 1 on each hip) that he could immediately access, and the rest were stowed away in his backpack.
Pffft, so uncreative!
Two on your back (one on each side, like Leonardo's swords), one on each hip like you said, another two on the chest (set a bit lower than the ones on the back, so you don't eat your own arrows), one on the front of each thigh, and one on the side of each thigh. And just for good measure, a headband with a quiver dangling behind your head (reach above your head to draw an arrow; since it'll be free-swinging, it can tilt forward as you draw, to avoid the pesky too-short arms issue).
Boom. Eleven quivers, for 220 arrows. Totally not an issue at all. Make them all efficient quivers and you've got 660 arrows (and lots of javelins of lightning, just in case).
Behold, the model PFS archer!
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@anthonydido:
In a home game, you can rule it that way if you like. You might even find some GM's in PFS that would allow you to do so.
In PFS, however, you have to go by the exact text, RAW, for the item.
The javelin slots are made to fit javelins for easy access. If you put arrows in those slots, they would not be very easy to access. And as Javelins are like twice as big as arrows, does that mean you get to put 36 arrows there?
Just too much room for variance. In PFS, I would assume table variance is the rule, and some GM's will allow it, and some will not.
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That he had to pick 60 arrows (3 quivers; 1 back and 1 on each hip) that he could immediately access, and the rest were stowed away in his backpack.Pffft, so uncreative!
Two on your back (one on each side, like Leonardo's swords), one on each hip like you said, another two on the chest (set a bit lower than the ones on the back, so you don't eat your own arrows), one on the front of each thigh, and one on the side of each thigh. And just for good measure, a headband with a quiver dangling behind your head (reach above your head to draw an arrow; since it'll be free-swinging, it can tilt forward as you draw, to avoid the pesky too-short arms issue).
Boom. Eleven quivers, for 220 arrows. Totally not an issue at all. Make them all efficient quivers and you've got 660 arrows (and lots of javelins of lightning, just in case).
Behold, the model PFS archer!
chuckle... I remember those days when I was playing DnD as a highschooler, before we learned what excess was...
I want to carry 72 daggers. Here's where I'm putting them all...
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That he had to pick 60 arrows (3 quivers; 1 back and 1 on each hip) that he could immediately access, and the rest were stowed away in his backpack.Pffft, so uncreative!
Two on your back (one on each side, like Leonardo's swords), one on each hip like you said, another two on the chest (set a bit lower than the ones on the back, so you don't eat your own arrows), one on the front of each thigh, and one on the side of each thigh. And just for good measure, a headband with a quiver dangling behind your head (reach above your head to draw an arrow; since it'll be free-swinging, it can tilt forward as you draw, to avoid the pesky too-short arms issue).
Boom. Eleven quivers, for 220 arrows. Totally not an issue at all. Make them all efficient quivers and you've got 660 arrows (and lots of javelins of lightning, just in case).
Behold, the model PFS archer!
chuckle... I remember those days when I was playing DnD as a highschooler, before we learned what excess was...
I want to carry 72 daggers. Here's where I'm putting them all...
Reminds me of an old GU comics image of a toon in EQ or WoW with like 9 backpacks all over their body. To show their 'inventory bags'. Unfortunately their site is currently borked so I can't go looking for it.
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@anthonydido:
In a home game, you can rule it that way if you like. You might even find some GM's in PFS that would allow you to do so.
In PFS, however, you have to go by the exact text, RAW, for the item.
The javelin slots are made to fit javelins for easy access. If you put arrows in those slots, they would not be very easy to access. And as Javelins are like twice as big as arrows, does that mean you get to put 36 arrows there?
Just too much room for variance. In PFS, I would assume table variance is the rule, and some GM's will allow it, and some will not.
OK, RAW says "same general size and shape as a javalin". Where is the cut-off for "general size"? Also, the argument that the arrows wouldn't be as easy to access is moot because, like the handy haversack, what you want is always on top ("the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver")
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OK, RAW says "same general size and shape as a javalin". Where is the cut-off for "general size"? Also, the argument that the arrows wouldn't be as easy to access is moot because, like the handy haversack, what you want is always on top ("the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver")@anthonydido:
In a home game, you can rule it that way if you like. You might even find some GM's in PFS that would allow you to do so.
In PFS, however, you have to go by the exact text, RAW, for the item.
The javelin slots are made to fit javelins for easy access. If you put arrows in those slots, they would not be very easy to access. And as Javelins are like twice as big as arrows, does that mean you get to put 36 arrows there?
Just too much room for variance. In PFS, I would assume table variance is the rule, and some GM's will allow it, and some will not.
But the javelin slots, RAW, are made for javelins.
As a GM, in PFS, I'm not going to allow you to stuff it with a bunch more arrows. 60 should be more than enough for a single encounter. You can reload when the encounter is over.
You can discuss real world physics and spacial relations all you want. But in PFS, you have a limitation to what you can and cannot fudge based on how something is written.
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But RAW does not say "18 javalins", it says 18 objects of similar size as a javalin. Which means it's using javalin as a basis for how big those 18 items could be before they don't fit in that slot. For example, I couldn't put a claymore into the second slot because it is too big.
An EQ is 3 extradimensional space slots. You mean to tell me that I can put 18 javalins in an extradimensional space but not 18 arrows (which are certainly smaller) into that same space?
Hey it's the return of another thread that pops up every 6 months or so. Seems we are getting a lot of those these days...
Edit: hmmm. Ignore this as it seems to have been moved from the PFS forums.
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Javelins are at best a one-handed weapon (the description doesn’t give a size, but says if used in melee they are considered improvised and you get the -4 to hit).
Arrows are, by their description, considered improvised light weapons in melee.
In a home game, I’d certainly give you lots of latitude.
In PFS, not so much. Again, I don’t care what real world spacial relations and physics says. In PFS, we have to go by RAW. RAW, it is made to fit 18 javelin sized items. In my opinion, it wouldn’t accept an arrow, as it’s the wrong size. It isn’t just a bag of holding where you can put anything in it.
This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about 20 arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to 18 objects of the same general size and shape as a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what's placed inside it.
And interestingly enough, the bolded text above, just how smart is the quiver? When does it act as a quiver, and when does it act as a scabbard?
Does it differentiate by specific item (i.e. if you put an arrow in the Javelin pouch, does it know it’s an arrow and let you draw the arrow as though the Javelin pouch were a quiver? – free/non action) or does it differentiate by specific pouch (i.e. anything put in the Bow pouch is drawn as though drawn from a scabbard? – standard action unless you have quick draw).
My interpretation is that the efficient quiver differentiates quiver/scabbard by which pouch you put the item in.
My interpretation is that the efficient quiver differentiates quiver/scabbard by which pouch you put the item in.
Well there's certainly nothing RAW to support that. If the list of things that could be put in the quiver was to be exclusive why was it not stated to be so? Why does it use explicitly vague wording? If some pouches act like quivers and some like scabbards, why weren't they specified instead of describing the item as a whole as capable of functioning as either? There is plenty of precedent concerning extra dimensional storage and its ability to always have what you want. Why would this item be less capable? I understand not wanting to get into how many arrows can fit in the javelin compartment, but it is surely at least as many as it can hold in javelins.
Interestingly, most items like this are measured by weight, and not at all by size. Those javelin could weigh a pound or a ton each.
And really, what will the difference be for the character to have 18 more arrows? Most people probably forget to mark 18 arrows every session.
My druid archer carries raw materials and makes arrows to replace those she uses. Our GM allows her to make arrows at a rate based on the RAW for making a bunch of arrows, so she tends to make a dozen or so arrows every night, and if there is any downtime, she makes a lot more. Her efficient quiver is refilled from her bag of holding after every encounter, and she bundles up her new arrows into her bag of holding each night.
And yes, our GM allows the "javelin" portion of the efficient quiver to effectively be another arrow storage area.
All of this sort of thing would be fixed if magic bows simply created normal arrows as part of the base function of magic bows. Pretty much every magic bow anyone finds in my campaigns does that just because it's pretty obviously the first thing a bow user would enchant their bow to do.
