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Say i charge with my lion, i make my normal atk with my lance x5 dmg and all that stuff
Can my lion make his pounce attack too when i use ride-by attack?
Does he need spring Attack to do that?
Thanks!
So Spring Attack is not compatible with Pounce, that's not going to help you. And neither is Ride-by Attack, really. The attacks from Pounce have to occur at the end of your charge, so you could have your mount charge and Pounce and make your lance attack as normal, but you couldn't attack with your lion in the middle of the movement. You'll either need to end your movement adjacent to the enemy if you want your mount to pounce and attack the same enemy with your lance, or have your mount target one enemy at the end of its charge while you attack a different enemy with Ride-by Attack mid-charge. If you want your mount to use Spring Attack, only your mount can attack in the middle of the movement, because you won't be charging, and your mount only gets one attack.
Why do you say x5 damage? Are you assuming that you crit?
Mounted lance charge = x2 damage
Mounted lance charge crit = x4 damage
Mounted lance charge + Spirited Charge = x3 damage
Mounted lance charge + Spirited Charge crit = x5 damage
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They don't Stack? I mean Spirited Charge + Lance? x5 dmg?
I always thought it was x5 dmg.It says that if you charge with your Lance u get x2 dmg, normal.
With the feat u do x3 dmg, so its x6 dmg at the end of the day?Or am i doing weird maths?
Thanks for the Spring Attack Heads up :D
A lance normally does x2 damage from the back of a charging mount. With Spirited Charge, all weapons now do x2, except lances, which now do x3.
Well thank You very much, that's dissapointing...
Still a x3 dmg it's awsm.Thanks guys!
Also, if you crit, you would do x4 damage, not x6. Multipliers add to each other.
Also, if you crit, you would do x4 damage, not x6. Multipliers add to each other.Well thank You very much, that's dissapointing...
Still a x3 dmg it's awsm.Thanks guys!
The lance has a x3 crit multiplier. With Spirited Charge it does x3 normally on a regular hit, so on a crit it is x5.
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There are three points of relevant text here.
When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).
When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
To charge while mounted your mount has to charge. Ride-By Attack says you have to charge, which means your mount is charging. If your mount is charging, it can pounce. So yes, you can charge an enemy and have your lion pounce and then ride off into the sunset. I'm trying to picture it now and it's tough. Personal nitpick: there was a ruling made...somewhere, that says your charging bonus to your lance only counts to your first attack, trying to nerd the rage lance pouncers, but by RAW I don't see it.
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There are three points of relevant text here.
When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attackIf your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).To charge while mounted your mount has to charge. Ride-By Attack says you have to charge, which means your mount is charging. If your mount is charging, it can pounce. So yes, you can charge an enemy and have your lion pounce and then ride off into the sunset. I'm trying to picture it now and it's tough. Personal nitpick: there was a ruling made...somewhere, that says your charging bonus to your lance only counts to your first attack, trying to nerd the rage lance pouncers, but by RAW I don't see it.
There is a FAQ, actually, that says your charge bonus only counts to your first lance attack, assuming you are able to make more, so that is RAW. Also, Ride-by Attack allows you to attack in the middle of a charge and continue your movement. It applies no such ability to your mount. There is currently no combination of feats that allows you to combine Ride-by Attack and Pounce.
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I figured there was probably an FAQ on it, like I said I knew I'd seen it, I just couldn't remember where. For Ride-By Attack to be in effect you have to be charging. However, for you to charge while mounted, your mount must be charging as well. That's why the mount will get the pounce. At least, that's how I see it.
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I figured there was probably an FAQ on it, like I said I knew I'd seen it, I just couldn't remember where. For Ride-By Attack to be in effect you have to be charging. However, for you to charge while mounted, your mount must be charging as well. That's why the mount will get the pounce. At least, that's how I see it.
When your mount is charging, you're just getting the benefits, you aren't actually charging at all. You can make an attack from the back of your charging mount and use Spirited Charge while your mount uses its Pounce ability and end your charge adjacent to your opponent, or you could even use Ride-by Attack to hit one enemy in the middle of your mount's charge and then have your mount use Pounce against a different enemy at the end of the charge, you just can't hit an enemy with your lance and your mount's Pounce attacks and then continue moving.
You and your mount are two completely separate entities that gain some unique advantages by using mounted combat. You just have to remember that unless the feats specifically say otherwise, feats you take affect you, and feats your mount takes affect him, but generally they won't carry their benefits over to the other party.
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So then could this happen? Could my mount who has improved overrun, attempt an overrun action during a charge, and that target chooses to get out of the way (or not for that matter). Could I use ride-by-attack to attack that target, while my mount then continued on the charge to the target behind or beyond the first?
Thanks
Fitz
Yes, that should work. Now, having Improved Overrun actually means that your target doesn't have the option to avoid you, so you'd actually have to succeed on your check to Overrun the enemy, but if you didn't have the feat and they got out of the way or you succeed on your check, you can use Ride-by Attack to skewer your enemy on the way past.
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A related question:
I am on my mount with a lance. My mount charges my target. When I reach 10' from the target, I attack with my lance. Does this end my mount's movement, or can it continue those last 5' and do its charge attack (leaving me unable to attack with my lance next round, due to being too close; that's fine, I'll drop it and draw my flail). Would I need Ride By Attack to be able to do that?
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As Ssalarn said, you aren't actually charging, you just get the benefit of it. So your mount charges and gets to melee range. You can count from any square your mount is in for determining your attack, so attack from one of the further back squares. I don't know what would happen if you're a small character on a medium mount.
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You can count from any square your mount is in for determining your attack, so attack from one of the further back squares.
"For simplicity, assume that you share your mount's space during combat."
The idea that you can choose what square you are occupying doesn't exist in the rules. A human shares the four squares of a large mount when riding. Rather than thinking of it as choosing which square, visualize it as the rider taking on a Large sized footprint while retaining usual stats otherwise.
There is more in this thread that I would best describe as being outside my experience for how the mounted combat rules work. I'm not going to address them individually.
The mounted combat rules are under-represented in the written rules, both in PF and in SRD 3.5, given the interest they engender. Very little changed between the two editions. As written, they raise a lot of questions. If you are interested in a system that works, consider reading the 3.5 Rules of the Games articles on Mounted Combat. There is a link in my profile.
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A related question:
I am on my mount with a lance. My mount charges my target. When I reach 10' from the target, I attack with my lance. Does this end my mount's movement, or can it continue those last 5' and do its charge attack (leaving me unable to attack with my lance next round, due to being too close; that's fine, I'll drop it and draw my flail). Would I need Ride By Attack to be able to do that?
The simplest answer here is "You probably want Ride-by Attack if you're trying that" mainly because we're stumbling into an area that's not super well covered by the rules.
The rules for mounted combat say you have to wait for your mount to reach the enemy before attacking, and Ride-by Attack verifies that the normal rule should be you can't attack and then continue your movement in mounted combat.The language is a little fuzzy, but the intent is clearly that without Ride-by Attack, your mount's movement ends when you make your attack.
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If i wear a Rhino Hide +2d6 on charge atks, and i have Spirited Charge, does that makes 6d6 dmg on a charge?
Or it just multiplies the Lance modifiers?
Additional dice beyond the base weapon die are never multiplied.
You would only get the additional 2d6. The things that would be multiplied would be the base weapon die (1d8 for a medium lance), the STR bonus to damage, the weapon enhancement bonus, and any other static modifiers (Favored Enemy bonuses, Smite damage, Power Attack).|
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Indeed, my bad. Thx for the fast answer :)
So bottom line
Can't pounce With Spring Atk And Ryde-By Atk, unless your GM alows you to do it.
Can pounce with Ride-By Atk if your mount ends it's charge into an enemy.
You could Pounce with Spirited Charge :)
You aren't using Ride-by Attack if your mount ends its turn next to the enemy you're attacking.
Unless you meant that you could Ride-by one enemy in the middle of your mount's charge while he Pounces a different enemy at the end of it, in which case you're correct.
Hmmm, I have a cavalier in my home game and things are getting fuzzier, now with flying stuff. Clear this up for me.
1. Flying mount (a roc), cavalier has ride by attack and wheeling charge.
2. Cavalier wants to charge a target and effectively dive bomb target (can use wheeling charge to pull up during his charge - because normally you can only charge in a straight line, which from above would take him into the ground - right?).
3. Guided by the cavalier the roc initiates a charge attack.
4. when the cavalier is in melee range he gets the benefit of his mounts charge and intiates his lance attack.
5. the mount finishes his charge by performing the charge attack action (for the roc probably a talon attack)
6. now beacuse of ride by attack, if there is movement left over, the cavalier and mount can move away without drawing an opportunity attack.
Do I have that correct?
Bonus questions:
7. since it's talon attack comes with a free grab can the roc grab a target and fly away with it? (the description implys that this is a common roc tactic?)
8. where in the rules can I find forced movement into a hazzardous space (like the air)?
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***3. Guided by the cavalier the roc initiates a charge attack.
4. when the cavalier is in melee range he gets the benefit of his mounts charge and intiates his lance attack.
5. the mount finishes his charge by performing the charge attack action (for the roc probably a talon attack)
6. now beacuse of ride by attack, if there is movement left over, the cavalier and mount can move away without drawing an opportunity attack.Do I have that correct?
Bonus questions:
7. since it's talon attack comes with a free grab can the roc grab a target and fly away with it? (the description implys that this is a common roc tactic?)
8. where in the rules can I find forced movement into a hazzardous space (like the air)?
You don't quite have it. Ride-by attack allows the cavalier to attack in the middle of it's charge and continue the movement. It does not extend that same ability to the Roc. The Roc would need to have an ability that allowed it to attack and continue moving, otherwise it would have to end its movement adjacent to the enemy.
You could have the Roc swoop down and hit him with his talon and then fly off using Spring Attack, but then the rider wouldn't be using Ride-by Attack since the mount isn't charging.
So the mount does not charge? It moves instead and the cavalier gets the benefit of a charge? If the mount is chargeing it gets an attack (that is what the charge attack action does - right?)
Ride-by-attack clearly states that the mount has to charge. (The cavaleir is not charging just getting the benefits). If the mount does not get to attack at the end how is that a charge and not just a move?
and if ride-by-attack ONLY allow the cavalier to move after the attack (without the mount...wheeee!) The feat does nothing. Unless, you mean that the rules imply (and boy is it tangled) that the mount charges, cavalier gets the benefit of the charge (and uses lance attack), but the mount chooses to not attack as part of its charge (instead converting it into a move action?) and then cavalier uses ride-by to move away?
So there are two types of charges (one with attack and one without?)
so...confused.
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So the mount does not charge? It moves instead and the cavalier gets the benefit of a charge? If the mount is chargeing it gets an attack (that is what the charge attack action does - right?)
Ride-by-attack clearly states that the mount has to charge. (The cavaleir is not charging just getting the benefits). If the mount does not get to attack at the end how is that a charge and not just a move?
and if ride-by-attack ONLY allow the cavalier to move after the attack (without the mount...wheeee!) The feat does nothing. Unless, you mean that the rules imply (and boy is it tangled) that the mount charges, cavalier gets the benefit of the charge (and uses lance attack), but the mount chooses to not attack as part of its charge (instead converting it into a move action?) and then cavalier uses ride-by to move away?
So there are two types of charges (one with attack and one without?)
so...confused.
It is a little confusing. Mounts have their charge modified by the Ride skill and Mounted Combat rules. You have to succeed on a DC 10 Ride check to attack in conjunction with your mount, otherwise only one or the other of you can make an attack. It is still using a special full round charge action. Ride-by Attack allows your cavalier to attack at any point during your mounts charge, but if your mount wants to attack as part of its charge, it still needs to meet all of the normal requirements for doing so (as well as the rider making the skill check). Ride-by attack only allows the rider to attack in the middle of a charge, as verified in my link above. Mounts still have to attack at the end of a charge, if at all.
It's also important to note, you don't have to make an attack on a charge. Charge states:"Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack."So anyone can charge without making an attack. Mounts are just more likely to do it since their riders will often be using their charge action to perform special combat maneuvers and attacks that will make it difficult for the mount to perform an attack.
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Bonus questions:
7. since it's talon attack comes with a free grab can the roc grab a target and fly away with it? (the description implys that this is a common roc tactic?)
8. where in the rules can I find forced movement into a hazzardous space (like the air)?
7) Once the Roc has grabbed his opponent, the normal rules for grappling apply. Since moving with your target in a grapple can only be done as part of the standard action to maintain the grapple (otherwise you cannot move while subject to the grappled condition), your movement would end as soon as you successfully grabbed your opponent. On the next round, you could proceed to fly away with your unfortunate victim, but he would get a free attempt to escape with a +4 bonus since he's being moved into a hazardous space.
8) See the rules for using the Move option under Grapple.
"Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus."
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Throwing a new question here
"Mounted Mastery (Ex)
At 8th level, the cavalier ignores the armor check penalty when using the Ride skill, regardless of whether or not the creature he is riding is his mount. Whenever he makes a charge attack while mounted, he receives a +4 dodge bonus to his AC to avoid attacks set against his charge. When making such an attack, he can add his mount’s Strength modifier to the damage roll, in addition to his own. He also receives a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Skill Focus (Ride), Spirited Charge, Trample, or Unseat. He must qualify for the feat selected."
Does my mount STR multiplies by 3 when i charge with my lance and Spirited Charge? It's not aditional Dice dmg, it's STR dmg so it should multiply.
Am i correct?
So if my Lion has 25 STR at my 8th Cavalier lvl i would get a +21 (+7x3) on my charge atks dmg?
That's correct. Since your mount's STR mod is now a static bonus added to your damage, it would get multiplied as well.