Corner Case, is At the Heart of it All considered an Attack?


Rules Questions


It allows for a Will save, but it doesn't do anything directly To the target, it instead grants the Bard a bonus to Influence it. Also, it is not actually targeting the creature, it hears the Bard's performance and the Bard then understands it better by its reaction.

Ability Text here:

Quote:

At the Heart of It All (String, Wind)

Your song pierces to the heart of a creature's identity, weakening it against you.

Effect: This haunting melody teases at the veils of understanding and drills into the bedrock of truth. Upon completing this performance, the target attempts a Will save. Failure means you understand the target's primal nature; you gain a +4 bonus on Charisma-based checks to influence the target, and the DCs of your abilities and spells that would influence the creature or its actions (including charm and compulsion effects) increase by +2. These bonuses last for 1 day.

You must have an idea of who the creature is when you begin to play the song, either through researching the creature or by observing it directly from no farther than 100 feet.

Thoughts?

Grand Lodge

I would say that the Bard is indeed targeting that specific creature with this feat. And gaining an advantage does do something to the target, it weakens it against you.

As far as if it counts as an attack, in what context? I'm not really sure as to what you are trying to ask?


The invisibility spell specifies, "...an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe."

At the Heart of It All says, "...the target attempts a Will save."

Is the target a foe?

(Incidentally, the grammar on At the Heart of It All is botched. It should say "Upon completion of this performance". Otherwise it would mean the bard has to make the save.)


Stewart Towslee wrote:

I would say that the Bard is indeed targeting that specific creature with this feat. And gaining an advantage does do something to the target, it weakens it against you.

As far as if it counts as an attack, in what context? I'm not really sure as to what you are trying to ask?

Ah :) Targeting it, yes, there it is. In my minds eye I was thinking "like a ray" or some other obviously aggressive action that targets. I think the issue for me comes from the fact that one of the primary benefits of this masterpiece is that it allows us to better influence the target. But we technically have to attack them to achieve this. Which leaves me to wonder how exactly am I going to take advantage of that +4 in combat?


This is more of a research performance. You don't use it while they're actually in your presence, you use it in the morning before you hunt them down or something like that.


mplindustries wrote:
This is more of a research performance. You don't use it while they're actually in your presence, you use it in the morning before you hunt them down or something like that.

Interesting, can it be used outside of their presence? I kind of see how you're reading it.

Otherwise, my roomie just suggested that its more like Sanctuary. Not itself a direct attack, even though it calls for a Will save.


Yeah, it's designed to be used outside of their presence.

"You must have an idea of who the creature is when you begin to play the song, either through researching the creature or by observing it directly from no farther than 100 feet."

You either just need to know their name, or you can spy on them from a distance briefly, then go back and cast it. If you ever met the person in any way or heard about them, you can use this on them.


Cool. I was looking for support of either reading and came across this:

Scrying wrote:

Scrying

School divination (scrying); Level bard 3, cleric 5, druid 4, sorcerer/wizard 4

Casting Time 1 hour

Components V, S, M/DF (a pool of water), F (a silver mirror worth 1,000 gp)

Range see text

Effect magical sensor

Duration 1 min./level

Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes

You can observe a creature at any distance. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, the spell fails. The difficulty of the save depends on how well your knowledge of the subject and what sort of physical connection (if any) you have to that creature. Furthermore, if the subject is on another plane, it gets a +5 bonus on its Will save.

I know that you have argued against doing this, but I couldn't argue from your position without analogous support. Your position is valid, for sure, and Scrying is a strong case for it, so we have precedence.

What is nice about At the Heart of it All, is that its rather powerful for the level range. BBeGs are pretty much in his pocket, and it synergizes strongly with other Masterpieces.

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