Defender of the Society

[HowlingWolf]

Two quick questions about the Defender of the Society trait.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/defender-of-the-society-fighte r-pathfinder-society

1. Can anyone take this trait or is it fighters only? I was looking to take it for my ranger.

2. Does the +1 trait bonus to ac go to both touch and flat-footed?

this is for a new pfs ranger character.

[Seranov]

1. You have to be a Level 1 Fighter to take the Defender of the Society trait.

2. It's only to standard and flatfooted AC, just like any normal armor bonus.

[Nefreet]

You have to be a Fighter, but I never thought about what the bonus applied to.

Would it increase CMD as well, since AC bonuses generally do?

EDIT: Darn, ninja'd by 7 seconds.

[Nefreet]

Seranov wrote:

It's only to standard and flatfooted AC, just like any normal armor bonus.

But it's a trait bonus, not an armor bonus.

[Seranov]

A trait bonus to AC. Which means it's a trait bonus to your armor bonus (the only way the two would stack).

[Feral]

Nefreet wrote:

Would it increase CMD as well, since AC bonuses generally do?

Not quite.

Quote:

A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD.

[HowlingWolf]

well darn...so much for having a 20 ac. looks like i will need to find another trait for my ranger then. thanks for your help.

[Nefreet]

That's how I've been running it on my Tiefling Fighter in PFS so far. I wonder if there's any errata on it. It's the only trait that increases AC. Normally non-armor, non-shield AC bonuses add to CMD as well.

[Nefreet]

Wow, look at all the ninjas! Thanks everyone. Glad I was being legal all this time.

[Anthony van Poppelen]

I don't know where you're seeing armour bonus, it's clearly a +1 trait bonus to your AC.

[Seranov]

Your AC is your armor bonus + 10 + any fiddly bits. This adds a +1 in those fiddly bits.

Touch AC is only increased by things like the Monk AC Bonus, Dexterity, Deflection bonuses, and a handful of other things... and trait bonuses are certainly not one of those things.

[Anyr]

Seranov wrote:

Your AC is your armor bonus + 10 + any fiddly bits. This adds a +1 in those fiddly bits.

Touch AC is only increased by things like the Monk AC Bonus, Dexterity, Deflection bonuses, and a handful of other things... and trait bonuses are certainly not one of those things.

This is incorrect. From the PRD (bolding mine):

Touch Attacks: Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally.

[Nefreet]

So the answer is still "no", since a recent thread I posted clearly stated that "such as" clauses only refer to those examples listed.

[Anyr]

Nefreet wrote:

So the answer is still "no", since a recent thread I posted clearly stated that "such as" clauses only refer to those examples listed.

Link? Because the quoted text definitely doesn't support that interpretation. It very clearly states that touch AC includes every type of bonus except Armour, Shield and Natural Armor.

[Mystic Lemur]

That's not how English works. You can't say "All other bonuses" and then claim that the listed examples are the only ones that apply.

[Jacob Saltband]

Any more info on this?

[blahpers]

It seems clear from Anyr's quote that you get the bonus to touch AC. It seems clear from Feral's post that you do not get the bonus to CMD. Finally, it's clear that you must be a fighter.

What else can we say?

[igotsmeakabob11]

Very helpful, actually.

[Deadalready]

Benefit: You gain a +1 trait bonus to Armor Class when wearing medium or heavy armor.

You only gain this benefit when wearing armour so this is an AC bonus. AC bonuses don't add to touch.

[Kenji Elindir]

Quote:

When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally.

Quote:

Benefit: You gain a +1 trait bonus to Armor Class when wearing medium or heavy armor.

It's a trait bonus. Touch AC ignores armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses. I don't see trait bonus on the list of ignored AC bonuses for touch AC, so therefore you get the +1 to touch AC.

[blackbloodtroll]

Deadalready wrote:

Benefit: You gain a +1 trait bonus to Armor Class when wearing medium or heavy armor.

You only gain this benefit when wearing armour so this is an AC bonus. AC bonuses don't add to touch.

Touch AC.

So, Touch AC, is basically a subset of AC.

If something adds to AC, then it adds to Touch AC, unless specified otherwise, like Armor, Shield, and Natural Armor bonuses are.

[Nefreet]

Oh, wow, some time has passed since I last saw this thread.

Since then it has been hashed out elsewhere that Defender of the Society:

1) may only be taken by a Fighter if you're playing in Society games.

2) applies to regular AC, touch AC, and flat-footed AC.

3) does not apply to CMD.