Command Undead is not Command Undead

[Dust Raven]

STARGAZER_DRAGON wrote:

hmm that's actually interesting, technically a mindless undead would see the Big bad cleric who was channeling negative energy as helping the party. After all the negative energy would be healing it or not effecting it.

I wouldn't rule it as working this way, but technically by Raw given that it did not describe how the mindless undead determined who was a ally and who wasn't. But then by this reasoning the players could ""attack"" one of there allies with healing magic while said ally pummeled the controlled undead and this should not break the control spell.

Personally though I think that the ally status is a semi magical and woven into the spell so that if the controller truly viewed someone as a ally or as a enemy that's how the spell would see it. But then again the spell does not actually say that the undead would not attack a ally just that if a ally attacks it the spell is disrupted. Further it does not describe why the spell is disrupted though we all know it is for balance reasons.

Yeah, I would never rule that an undead perceives positive energy uses as hostile in an of themselves. I would say the undead (if only due to the magic of the spell) can tall if positive/negative energy is helpful/hostile based on how it affects who it's used on.

I would think the impression of who is or is not an ally is purely subjective and only woven partly into the spell, but unless an encounter is extraordinarily complicated (such as when there are 3 or more sides in a conflict) telling who is and is not an ally is fairly obvious.

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

hmm what happens when a character gets mind controlled and he has commanded undead?

Technically his allies because the bad guys while he is being controlled so does that transfer to the undead?

Does the undead treat the players as enemies and enemies as allies since technically the character in control views them that way?

Further since the character views people different and the undead also treat them differently does this mean that if a bad guy attacks the commanded undead it brakes the command?? I mean the enemies become allies while the character is being controlled.

Gets complicated

[Mystic Lemur]

STARGAZER_DRAGON wrote:

hmm what happens when a character gets mind controlled and he has commanded undead?

They respond to his verbal commands as normal, unless attacked by an ally. I see nothing in the spell dominate person that would lead me to believe the person dominated becomes an ally to the caster. Do you have a rules citation for this, or similar abilities?

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target's attitude as friendly)

With a opposed check you could also make the target aid your allies. If your allies then attacked his commanded undead in his eyes a allie had attacked his commanded undead, hell even easier the caster could attack the undead directly. Since the charm person makes the target veiw you as friendly his undead should also veiw you as a ally.

Or using dominate person giving the command to think of me as a friend, this therefor would cause the dominated creature to view the caster as a friend and thus a ally

Course there's always the rout of suggesting to attack the undead he was controlling thus forcing him to attack his own undead and breaking the command undead that way. perhaps dominate him to force him to cast fireball on the undead and clip his allies in the AOE as well.

[KeithPalmer]

I will say this although "mindless undead" don't have an int for discerning they do have a wisdom for common sense. higher lvl problem solving cant be done but basic common sense stuff is viable. "if something attacks caster or its allies it is an enemy" things like that can be implied and understood. mindless undead still have instincts and ability to carry them out just have the lack of willpower to stop. but until something becomes an enemy it wont perceive and would be considered an animal companion with guard.

[Suthainn]

Yager wrote:

I will say this although "mindless undead" don't have an int for discerning they do have a wisdom for common sense. higher lvl problem solving cant be done but basic common sense stuff is viable. "if something attacks caster or its allies it is an enemy" things like that can be implied and understood. mindless undead still have instincts and ability to carry them out just have the lack of willpower to stop. but until something becomes an enemy it wont perceive and would be considered an animal companion with guard.

A most appropriate thread for Necromancy ;)

[Belamorte]

I was looking how to resolve when an evil cleric is trying to command undead, and my party's necromancer is channeling to control undead. It's a contested Charisma to see who they follow and which commands they take...but reading this thread made me laugh. It's a skeleton with on average 4 hps. If it got to be an issue, it hits a trip wire and good bye skeleton. Likewise, the necromancer's first trip into a settlement with said Skeleton...Angry mob and good bye Necromancer.

Likewise, as to commands, there is a Pathfinder adventure path where two Whispering Way Cultists have 12 skeletons doing military formations. That's a heck of a lot more complicated than attack them!

[Fergie]

Suthainn wrote:

A most appropriate thread for Necromancy ;)

Apparently this thread did just sit and do nothing when not commanded...

I would have thought it would go destroy a village or something.