Laying Waste to Cities: Turning Meteor Swarm into a carpet bombing spell

[kyrt-ryder]

Alright, so here's my problem. As the rules currently stand, Meteor Swarm (the iconic 'Ultimate Blast' spell) really sucks for dealing structural damage and/or trying to blow up a low level army.

So here are some ideas (some are more generic and will help all evocations rather than just Meteor Swarm, while others are specifically for the spell.)

1: remove the 'half damage' to objects aspect from energy attacks, and ignore hardness to especially vulnerable materials (in my case, I'm going with Fire-Wood/cloth, Acid: Metal, Lightning-Wood/stone, Cold... ok, I've got no idea for cold. Crystaline stuff for Sound.

2: remove SR from all blasting spells.

3: Rebuild Meteor Swarm, my initial attempt is below.

Meteor Swarm

School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 9

Casting Time 1 round

Components Verbal, Somatic, Special Component

Special Component This spell must be cast with line of sight to the sky, and line of effect between the sky and the intended target.

Range insanely long (10 miles + 1 mile/level)

Area up to five miles, see text

Duration instantaneous

Saving Throw none or Reflex half, see text

Effect: This spell creates up to five meteors per caster level, each of which deals 1d6/caster level bludgeoning damage to any target it strikes, and releases an explosion that deals 1d6/caster level fire damage. For every two explosions who's area overlaps a given target, they take an additional 1d6/caster level fire damage, to a maximum of 3d6 per caster level fire damage to the same target. A caster can not target a creature smaller than Large with a meteor, which requires a ranged touch attack.

Note: in the case of structures, deal damage to the outer wall from the bludgeoning damage first. If the wall breaks from the bludgeoning damage, deal the explosion damage internally. If multiple meteors target the same structure, assume they target it as efficiently as possible, either following in a line through the roof to blow up the interior of a tall building, or spread out across a wider building.

The following details explain casting nuances for this spell:

Target single Collossal or larger target: With this spell, one can send up to ten meteors crashing into the collosal target. (Special note: In this case, add an additional 1d6/caster level fire damage)

Target single Gargantuan or larger target: With this spell, one can send up to five of the meteorites crashing into the same target if it is Gargantuan or larger, dealing massive damage to the great beast.

Target single Huge or larger target: With this spell, one can send up to three of the meteorites crashing into the same Huge target.

Target single large target: With this spell, one can specifically target a single meteor crashing into the large target.

These values also apply to structures.

As a final option, a caster can choose a 'carpet bomb' option, in which they designate a target, and the meteors strike equally around all of those targets, with the intent of devastating an army.
Meteor swarm is a very powerful and spectacular spell that is extremely destructive. When you cast it, a massive meteorite appears in the sky above the target, and explodes, sending large (12 foot diameter) meteors cascading through the sky, enshrouded in flames.

If you aim a sphere at a specific creature, you may make a ranged touch attack to strike the target with the meteor. Fire resistance is only applied once, no matter how many overlapping meteors apply. However, DR applies to each Meteor.

(Sorry it's so sloppy, I'm tired and being rushed. I already know it needs revision, but I'm looking for thoughts and critique.)

[Windquake]

Completely changing the structure of spells on such a mass scale would quickly make any Evoker the kings of the world (why would ANY wizard specialize in anything else?).

SR useless against them? ACK! A 5 MILE range? 5 MILES?!?! How could anything possibly defend against that, especially without SR?

I think what you should do is create a feat that allows full structural damage (+1 level) and perhaps cause increased havoc on non-magical items or perhaps it causes half damage, but doubles the area of effect (and does that half damage to all non-magical objects and people), and call it Siege Spell. Combined with other feats you could really do some damage. Imagine an Enlarged, Sieged Meteor Swarm. That would do some damage.

There are other feats to increase range and other feats to make busting through SR already in the game.

Rather than re-inventing the wheel, clever use of the tools available would yield similar results.

[Nebelwerfer41]

If the intent is to cut down swaths of enemies and destroy structures, keep the SR+DR, halve the damage (8-10d6 should be fine for armies of mooks and damaging most non-stone buildings), double the area of each meteor, have stuff catch fire, ignore hardness and increase casting time to 1 minute or at least one full round.

[Ender_rpm]

I wonder if this isn't tipping over the point of "spells I can memorize to make my day easier" into "Stuff I need a couple days to prep" ritual? Memorized spells are, in my mind, quick and dirty magic, portable magic, modest scale magic. Stuff like what you are proposing should have an insanely long casting time, require major astrophysical calculations, possibly a virgin sacrifice :) It's not a scale of magic defined int he game rules.

[kyrt-ryder]

Ender_rpm wrote:

I wonder if this isn't tipping over the point of "spells I can memorize to make my day easier" into "Stuff I need a couple days to prep" ritual? Memorized spells are, in my mind, quick and dirty magic, portable magic, modest scale magic. Stuff like what you are proposing should have an insanely long casting time, require major astrophysical calculations, possibly a virgin sacrifice :) It's not a scale of magic defined int he game rules.

I'll address the other posts later (short on time) but I wanted to reply to this one immediately.

To me, this kind of spell would require such rules if someone wanted to try to cast it at a significantly lower level... lets say level 10.

But as a simple city bombing? You're 17th level man. A 9th level spell can fricking STOP TIME. Or create a demi-plane. Or any number of other things.

It's entirely possible I overdid the spell's single target options, but this spell is intended to be able to vaporize a city, or a huge army of redshirts.

[Evil Lincoln]

I like it. Needs to be cleaned up a bit, but it would take a lot more than great range and better area to make Meteor Swarm clearly better than other 9th level spells.

I almost think you should just draft a new meteor-based 9th level spell, with a new name, and see what kind of response it gets. A lot of people would probably accept an evocation balanced against all 9th level spells BUT Meteor Swarm, but calling it that gives it some extra baggage to overcome.

Of course, YMMV, but this is a houserule people. There's no sense in calling anything "broken" in these parts of the forum... just predict the consequences as best you can.

[Goth Guru]

Let's start from scratch.
Call Meteor 9th level sorc/wizard, Druid and Sky domain 8
Range: Line of sight
Every round after casting this spell you call down a small meteor to somewhere nearby. Everything it goes through takes 1 structural damage per level. Opon arrival it explodes doing 4D6 shrapnel and concussion damage in a 40 foot spread. Reflex saves apply but there's no magic resistance against a chunk of rock and ice. You can call meteors for 1 round per level.
Most castles have 4 towers. You take out the wall of a walled city, you have an opening for an army.
I need to know the RAW for structural damage in pathfinder.

[Ender_rpm]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

But as a simple city bombing?

Bombing a city is NEVER simple :) I mean, look at Pompeii- it took a massive eruption HOURS to cover the city. Fire bombing of Dresden/Tokyo? Hundreds of aircraft, tons of explosives, AND cities primed to burn with wooden structures, industrial chemical,s and explosives. Nagasaki/ Hiroshima? The equivalent of THOUSANDS of tons of explosives. Even at level 17, this is a big affair to pull off IN 6 SECONDS. Make it a full minute to cast, or limit it to line of sight (the wizard may be flying, so it's not THAT big a restriction). But in any case, I think this touches on EPIC level play, something reserved for the avenging angels of a deities wrath, not mere mortal spellcasters with a bit of bat guano and an itch to make a name for themselves.

Just my $.02 :)

[Evil Lincoln]

Goth Guru wrote:

Let's start from scratch.

Call Meteor 9th level sorc/wizard, Druid and Sky domain 8
Range: Line of sight
Every round after casting this spell you call down a small meteor to somewhere nearby. Everything it goes through takes 1 structural damage per level. Opon arrival it explodes doing 4D6 shrapnel and concussion damage in a 40 foot spread. Reflex saves apply but there's no magic resistance against a chunk of rock and ice. You can call meteors for 1 round per level.
Most castles have 4 towers. You take out the wall of a walled city, you have an opening for an army.

+1. Excellent approach.

I suggest you start with something more like this, kyrt, and scale it up until it meets your needs but doesn't exceed the utility of a 9th level spell. The name change is key, you'll get a totally different response.

[Goth Guru]

This is a good way to attack a castle filled with undead.