RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Hi guys,
So, I'm still working on writing up Iconic NPCs, and I'm currently looking at Ms. Lirianne the Gunslinger. Based on her level 7 writeup for Pathfinder Society, she's got this listed as her Ranged attack:
Ranged +2 reliable pistol +14 (1d8+5/×4), mwk pistol +8 (1d6+4/×4) or
mwk pistol +13 (1d8+4/×4)
From this, I assume she actually is dual-wielding pistols, which is fine. However, she doesn't have Two-Weapon Fighting.
It looks to me like she's not taking any penalties to her first pistol attack at all, and then only a -5 to her second with her off-hand. So, here are the possible scenarios:
-She's written up wrong, and should be taking a -6 penalty to her main hand and a -10 to her off-hand, since pistols are one-handed (NOT light) weapons.
-Her attacks have no two-weapon-fighting penalties because she's not actually taking an EXTRA attack with her off-hand, instead she's using her second attack from high BAB on her off-hand (BAB +7/+2). This would suggest that she would take a -5 penalty, which does look to be the case.
-I'm missing some HUGE bonuses in the calculations somehow and she actually IS taking the -6 and -10 penalties.
Can someone help with an explanation of this? If she is only taking the -5 penalty to her second attack (which looks to be the case), is this rules-legal? I thought that you always take penalties for dual-wielding, even if you're not taking the extra attack that it would give you. Does this mean that the Iconic fighter could go without Two-Weapon Fighting also, if he doesn't take the extra attack?
Here is the full character writeup for level 7, for reference:
Female half-elf gunslinger 7 (Ultimate Combat 9)
CG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +4; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
DEFENSE
AC 22, touch 17, flat-footed 16 (+5 armor, +1 deflection, +4 Dex, +2
dodge)
hp 64 (7d10+21)
Fort +8, Ref +10, Will +6; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune magical sleep effects
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee longsword +8/+3 (1d8+1/19–20)
Ranged +2 reliable pistol +14 (1d8+5/×4), mwk pistol +8 (1d6+4/×4) or
mwk pistol +13 (1d8+4/×4)
STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 11
Base Atk +7; CMB +8; CMD 25
Feats Extra Grit*, Gunsmithing*, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid
Reload*, Skill Focus (Perception)*, Weapon Focus (pistol)*
Skills Craft (alchemy) +10, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (engineering) +10,
Perception +8, Sleight of Hand +14; Armor Check 0
Languages Common, Elven
SQ deeds (dead shot, deadeye, gunslinger initiative, gunslinger’s
dodge, pistol-whip, quick clear, startling shot, targeting, utility shot),
grit (5), elf blood*, gunsmith*, gun training (pistol +4)*, nimble +2*
Combat Gear potion of owl’s wisdom, potions of cure serious wounds
(2), oil of silence, alchemist’s fire; Other Gear +2 studded leather,
longsword, +1 reliable pistol, mwk pistol with 30 bullets, ring of
protection +1, cloak of resistance +1, adamantine bullets (5), backpack,
belt of incredible dexterity +2, dagger, gunsmith’s kit, hemp rope (50
ft.), paper cartridges (15), powder horn with 10 doses of black powder,
silver bullets (5), sunrods (2), waterskin, 79 gp
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Also, why is the damage for her MW Pistol 1d6 in the first attack sequence and 1d8 in the second?
It looks like she should be +8 with her reliable and +3 with her MW, or just +14 with the reliable.....
And the weapon is listed as a +2 Reliable psitol in her attack sequence, but a +1 Reliable Pistol in her gear...
Definitely seems like a jacked up stat block.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Hi all,
I'm confused by the attack bonuses listed for the level 7 gunslinger pregen. She's got these attacks listed:
Ranged +2 reliable pistol +14 (1d8+5/×4), mwk pistol +8 (1d6+4/×4) or
mwk pistol +13 (1d8+4/×4)
With a BAB of +7 and a Dex of 18 (+4) and Weapon Focus (pistol), she's got a total of +14 on the +2 reliable pistol, which is correct. However, it looks like she's dual-wielding two pistols, and only taking a -5 to the second pistol attack (+7 BAB, +4 Dex, +1 wpn focus, +1 masterwork, -5 second attack = +8).
Should there be dual-wielding penalties along with this? If not, how does that work when it comes to the standard rules on two-weapon fighting? Notice that she does NOT have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.
Also, in her equipment, she's listed as only having a +1 reliable pistol. I haven't done the math to see if that was just a typo and her wealth includes the cost for a +3 weapon yet.
Here's her full stat block for convenience:
Female half-elf gunslinger 7 (Ultimate Combat 9)
CG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +6; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
DEFENSE
AC 22, touch 17, flat-footed 16 (+5 armor, +1 deflection, +4 Dex, +2
dodge)
hp 64 (7d10+21)
Fort +8, Ref +10, Will +6; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune magical sleep effects
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee longsword +8/+3 (1d8+1/19–20)
Ranged +2 reliable pistol +14 (1d8+5/×4), mwk pistol +8 (1d6+4/×4) or
mwk pistol +13 (1d8+4/×4)
STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 11
Base Atk +7; CMB +8; CMD 25
Feats Extra Grit*, Gunsmithing*, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid
Reload*, Skill Focus (Perception)*, Weapon Focus (pistol)*
Skills Craft (alchemy) +10, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (engineering) +10,
Perception +8, Sleight of Hand +14; Armor Check 0
Traits Elven Reflexes*, Killer
Languages Common, Elven
SQ deeds (dead shot, deadeye, gunslinger initiative, gunslinger’s
dodge, pistol-whip, quick clear, startling shot, targeting, utility shot),
grit (5), elf blood*, gunsmith*, gun training (pistol +4)*, nimble +2*
Combat Gear potion of owl’s wisdom, potions of cure serious wounds
(2), oil of silence, alchemist’s fire; Other Gear +2 studded leather,
longsword, +1 reliable pistol, mwk pistol with 30 bullets, ring of
protection +1, cloak of resistance +1, adamantine bullets (5), backpack,
belt of incredible dexterity +2, dagger, gunsmith’s kit, hemp rope (50
ft.), paper cartridges (15), powder horn with 10 doses of black powder,
silver bullets (5), sunrods (2), waterskin, 79 gp
FYI I do have another thread going in the main rules forum about this, but I wanted to bring it to the attention of PFS people specifically.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I'd assume its option number two.
Not sure about the other issues, like the damage die changing, and the fact that its a +1 reliable pistol in her "gear" and a +2 on her "Ranged" line.
Well, that answers that question. Thanks!
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I don't know why it says 1d6 as opposed to 1d8 but it should be option 2 that you have listed without penalties. A level 7 gunslinger gets 2 attacks as a full attack at +7/+2 BAB. So the first attack with the +2 pistol gets a +14 to hit (+7 BAB, +4 Dex, +2 enhancement, +1 weapon focus)and the second attack with the MW pistol gets a +8 to hit (+2 BAB, +4 Dex, +1 MW, +1 WF). There are no penalties for bonus attacks due to high BAB for your class, at least none that I could find.
She isn't using Alchemical Cartridges so even with Rapid Reload, her reload action is a move action per pistol.
I guess this way she can BLAM BLAM in her first turn, then next turn go move action/move action to reload them, then BLAM BLAM her second turn. Or after the first turn she could move action reload / standard action BLAM, but she'd be shorting herself an attack.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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She isn't using Alchemical Cartridges so even with Rapid Reload, her reload action is a move action per pistol.I guess this way she can BLAM BLAM in her first turn, then next turn go move action/move action to reload them, then BLAM BLAM her second turn. Or after the first turn she could move action reload / standard action BLAM, but she'd be shorting herself an attack.
True. I'm writing up her 12th-level version now, and she'll be able to use Lightning Reload to do free action reload, single shot BLAM then move action reload, then next turn free action reload, full attack BLAM BLAM, then start the process over. This is all using weapon cords, though. The iconics are never optimized, but she's especially weak, compared to a well-written Gunslinger. I think as she's written right now at 7th level her best option is to get two attacks on the first round, then just drop the secondary pistol to reload-attack once per round after that.
More interesting, why would she use a mwk pistol when she got a +2 reliable?
If anything she should use that for her move/standard single attacks.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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More interesting, why would she use a mwk pistol when she got a +2 reliable?
If anything she should use that for her move/standard single attacks.
I think it's only listed that way because she doesn't take any penalties to the +2 reliable pistol, so if she was to just use it, it would be the exact same bonuses. They listed the mwk one after that to show what the attack bonus would be when using just it (such as if her +2 reliable gained the broken condition or was dropped).
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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@Ross, thanks.
After looking at the value of the items she has, I think the +2 reliable pistol should actually be a +1 reliable pistol, as listed toward the bottom of her stat block. If I add up just her magic items, I'm already at 29,300 gp, and that's not including any mundane items or the cost of ammunition used and such. Wealth by level for 7th level is 23,500gp.
So yeah, should probably just be +1 reliable pistol. I'm going to take that into account on my writeups, and it should probably be fixed on the PFS pregen download.
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Might want a reminder to drop the Backpack with the rope and waterskin before combat, otherwise you're at medium encumbrance. Which means you can't use Gunslinger's Dodge but do still get Nimble. And max dex will hit you. Even with dropping the pack, you're pushing the load limit.
And for level 7, that's a worryingly small amount of ammo.
Not our place to alter the character, I know, but maybe included with the characters we could put some blurbs on what a player can do at the begining of the session to fix the character. Like buying more black powder and dumping gear on someone else for Lirianne, resting a day and getting new spells for Kyra, etc.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Might want a reminder to drop the Backpack with the rope and waterskin before combat, otherwise you're at medium encumbrance. Which means you can't use Gunslinger's Dodge but do still get Nimble. And max dex will hit you. Even with dropping the pack, you're pushing the load limit.
And for level 7, that's a worryingly small amount of ammo.
Not our place to alter the character, I know, but maybe included with the characters we could put some blurbs on what a player can do at the begining of the session to fix the character. Like buying more black powder and dumping gear on someone else for Lirianne, resting a day and getting new spells for Kyra, etc.
Great points to make. I'll be sure to add that to Lirianne's "Before combat" section. :)