Goblin Squad Member
|
Sorcs have the advantage of being able to cast every spell they know. The Wizard has to with limited exceptions...
Actually I believe that balance will be a very tricky subject in the creating process of wizards and sorcerors. I'm not sure that the ability to cast a lot of different spell will not be surpassed in combat by the capacity of sorcerors to cast the same powerful spell over and over and over in a fight.
In my experience with MMO , mostly Lineage 2 and AION, the players tend to use few spells in combat as it is normally not long lasting. So if GW do not balance things correctly sorcerors will be far more effective in combat (at least 1x1) than wizards. In a MMO fight, the possibility of casting lightningbolts many times would be better than having many possibilities of spells to cast, as you wold need time to decide wich spell to use and things happen very fast. The need to prechoose spells before you go to field can be very limiting to a MMO combat system, much more than in a tabletop game IMO.
Just my two cents to add to the discussion.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Yeah, but combat is not intended to be as central in this game as it is in most MMOs - at least, it seems far more balanced to me. The added utility of being a wizard is what makes it great in the Tabletop, and if things come out the way I believe they will, then that value will be brought into PFO as well.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Yeah, but combat is not intended to be as central in this game as it is in most MMOs - at least, it seems far more balanced to me. The added utility of being a wizard is what makes it great in the Tabletop, and if things come out the way I believe they will, then that value will be brought into PFO as well.
When DM/GMing PnP I often used to aggravate wizards players by asking them to explain exactly how they were manipulating and instantly locating all those scrolls and wands so quickly in combat :D
But I wasn't biased, I did the same thing to clerics magically acquiring 3 hands and using a shield, sword and holy symbol all at the same time.
|
The NWN perpetual worlds did fine by insisting the character "sleep" for a few seconds to refresh spells.
Assuming you do not want unlimited spells the only alternative to spell refresh mechanics is mana. The.Mana system is simply not pathfinder
I don't think that is necessarily the only way to handle things. For example a novel system as I see it would be to allow a wizard archetype character with a spellbook to reprepare any number of spells that he is capable of slotting by spending a certain amount of time at rest (Not simply out of combat, sleeping, or some other restful setting), and using their spellbook. Doing this would trigger a significant cooldown on your spellbook itself, as well as any others you have in your inventory of say at LEAST an hour. Dealing with the spells you prepared ahead of time is one of the CORE, FUNDAMENTAL components of the D&D style wizard. Simply allowing them to refresh and change their spells as they choose is not really a valid option if they want to maintain any kind of "spirit" of the class at all.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
The NWN perpetual worlds did fine by insisting the character "sleep" for a few seconds to refresh spells.
Assuming you do not want unlimited spells the only alternative to spell refresh mechanics is mana. The.Mana system is simply not pathfinder
For reference
We're also creating a Refresh system. Characters can use particular abilities a certain number of times per four-hour in-game day, or until the player uses a Refresh—a special action characters take to refocus, rest, and regain abilities. This system avoids the situation where your character has nothing useful to do and is waiting for a new game day to begin before they can be productive. Using a Refresh requires at least fifteen seconds of uninterrupted time, so it's not something you can usually do in the middle of combat. Characters only have a limited number of Refreshes per game day.
Our design gives more Refreshes to new characters and fewer to experienced characters. Generally speaking, as a new character you will be able to do a few things often using Refresh, and as an experienced character you'll be able to do a wide variety of things without depending on a Refresh.
Characters have the opportunity to earn abilities that adjust the number of Refreshes they have, how long they take to use, and other special effects like going invisible or raising a magical shield while using a Refresh. The Refresh system introduces many meaningful decisions, such as choosing between using a Refresh before traveling through dangerous territory in case you get ambushed, or saving it for a battle at your destination.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Sorcs have the advantage of being able to cast every spell they know. The Wizard has to with limited exceptions...I'm not sure the Devs could combine Wizards and Sorcerers totally and still have all the roles included as stated. A wizard has the potential of knowing every spell available, but due to a Sorcerer gaining his/her magic via a bloodline, they are limited in the number of spells they can know. They can be very powerful, especially if they train the proper skills and get all the proper merit badges for being a Sorcerer, but a Wizard who has access to inscribing scrolls and spells from captured/looted spell books will be the more powerful of the two as he/she can choose from among many spells every time they rest. The Sorcerer has a limited spell list available to them as they only gain a set number. While many overlaps may occur, like both can train Knowledge: Arcana, and Spellcrafting, any skills that allow the use of a spell book will make a 100% wizard have an edge over a similarly skilled (Level) Sorcerer. Of course you can, in a skill-based Sandbox MMO have hybrid characters, and I think we will see those, so I am just comparing characters that stick to those skills needed to be pure Sorcerers and pure Wizards. And I do agree, speculating is fun ;)Hmm, an update on the subject of Sorcerers vs Wizards (and whether there will be a distinction if there are no individual reagents, etc.):
From Ryan's post here...
It seems they will be focusing on the roles in the core rulebook, and that might imply that these two archetypes will be combined somehow. Obviously, we won't know for some time, but speculation is fun.... We have a very good idea of what kinds of things need to be put on the priority list at the outset:
* All the races in the core rulebook
* All the roles from the core rulebook...
True, except this doesn't take into account a bonded item, which I have found most who play Wizards in the gaming community here tend to take over familiars because it gives the Wizard a bonus spell that can be anything found in their spellbook, plus a lot of other nifty things once the Wizard is skilled enough to add spells to said item (has the proper craft <magical item> feat). Sorcerers can't bond, so by the mid levels the wizard is beginning to be more powerful. Of course this is moot as this isn't PFRPG, it is PFO :) That and everyone has their own biases anyway, myself included. I won't play an Oracle, a Gunslinger or a Sorcerer because I simply don't like the classes, but others I have gamed with love them all. One friend even made a multi-class Gunslinger/Summoner and was a one man killing machine. In any case, I meant no disrespect :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think DDO has done a good job implementing components. Some of the low level spells don't have any components but a lot of spells do. The components are relatively cheap, and you can get a component bag. The quality, ie. cost, of the bag determines how many unique components you can put in it, and each unique component can be stacked in groups of 100. You also automatically use the component if you have it so you don't have to go rooting though your inventory every time you try to cast a spell. This may not be completely PnP but its a good compromise for a MMO.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I do remember setting up a vendor at my house in Ultima Online that sold only reagent bags with 25 of each reagent. The bags were not overly encumbering but still had some heft. A reg bag of 100 reagents might easily throw you over your encumbrance limit, especially if you just rezzed and were running back to your corpse to loot it. You new reg bag and old loot of your corpse could be lots of loot, too much so if you did not carefully think through your encumbrance limit.
I am in favor of magical reagents, as it required a much more vibrant economy in growing the reagents and correctly proccessing them for magical or alchemical use.