Goblin Squad Member
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The idea that came to mind as part of discussions on deific favor is that possibly the ultimate favor one would find with their deity is to become their Champion.
This would necessitate a great deal of time and effort, would probably need to be a term limited job (either by length of time, or perhaps even through challenge by .. well, whatever it is the deity values). It would provide an excellent focal point generally outside of the Alignment conflict for players to strive towards. The advantages of such a position could be more than simply "x% stronger" .. but be tailored to the principles of that deity. Combat, trade, crafting, magic are all domains of various deities, and important domains to various players.
Actions associated with a deity's domains could be a means of gaining favor, longer quests, tasks or trials could also be another means. Ideally each deity would have its own path to gaining, overthrowing and losing the title of Champion. Being a Champion could also tie in with the Reputation of a settlement/kingdom hosting the Champion.
Most importantly, it's another means for meaningful player interaction while providing a very handsome reward.
Anyways, I really don't have a solid concept to present here, just an idea that I thought could really be run with.
What do you think?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like the idea of earning favor with my deity of choice, but I don't particularly enjoy the idea of a god granting his favor to someone who just runs around for a couple weeks grinding out some generic quests.
I'd really love to see (assuming enough data is tracked) GW have some GM's or other employees once a month (or however long the favor lasts) check out a spreadsheet of players, and each person responsible for a deity rewards one player with the deity's favor, the player who most embodies that deity's belief system would be considered his/her/its champion for whatever the predetermined time would be.
Of course with some deities, that might happen to be a certain player that ran through a huge quest line for specifically that goal. Idk.
I'd much rather see champions chosen because they played their alignment, as opposed to completing an arbitrary set of quests that says "I love my god the mostest."
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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This would be cool if implemented correctly, and as Axies said it may require GM intervention.
It brings up a good point, on the alignment scale, it would be a good idea for GW to have it so that you never reach a maximum in a certain quadrant, IE if you stay LG you should continue to get LG points for your LG actions, rather than just reaching LG and that is that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps instead it would be a rotating event for different deities, with different events for the champion each time, so every few months a new champion is chosen for each god, but there are strict rules for the champion to follow, if they break them, they lose their position. Perhaps then it passes to the runner up in the challenge.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ya know Dak, that's not a bad idea at all.. you should throw that at the Alignment thread too. It could go a ways towards calming those as worry about Alignment maintenance.
I could totally envision this being a monthly event of some sort, either a big thing in a central TN territory.. or on an individual basis where a GM-Deity descends from the heavens all Valkyrie like, or materializes in a cloud of smoke laced with lightning.. a column of White/Grey/Red/Whatever light that can be seen for hexes and a ceremony that lasts a few minutes to formally bestow the mantle of Champion to the guy in the midst of a battle or standing in town.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It could be the capstone to a long skill tree associated with your deity. Capstones are talked about in the blog Your Pathfinder Online Character.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They've moved away from capstones.
...but don't stop there: they moved toward somethig called 'focus' to provide capston-like abilities/powers to those who have non-multiclass skills slotted.
It occurred to me that the deities might sponsor Olympic-like contests appropriate to their particular interests, and maybe the audience might choose the winner by acclaim. In game events. If a goddess appreciates the arts the bards and others might compete with their best creations. If it is a god of war then single combat. etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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GM determined would be fine, though criteria for each deity would be appreciated. Something for players to strive for.
I don't condone grindy content, but I think it's possible to set a sort of entrance bar through accumulation of appropriate acts and perhaps a pilgrimage. It could be done individually or in groups. Consider it a simple act of flagging those interested in the duties.
Any other ideas?
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Goblin Squad Member
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This reminds me of the Chosen from FR.
I like the idea of the god being something akin to a faction. A requirement would be maxed out in your gods favor. Those who are maxed in their gods favor then get a exclusive quest/event which would be created and controlled by the GM. Those that not only survive it but get the best score, dependent on what that god exemplifies and favors is then given that title or rank. Runner ups get a small prize for the effort, assuming they survived.
Their are a number of "clauses" that the champion is unaware of which could cause them to lose their title/rank as well as whenever the GM chooses to bring forth that quest/event around again at which point the current champion passes over the title/rank. That is unless someone else who met the requirements gives up their spot to the current champion which allows them to enter the new quest/event.
This will ensure that someone does not hold the title/rank unless other faithful wish to give them that chance. In which case only being the best among the faithful yet again would allow them to remain the champion.
Just some thoughts for ya. Some gods I can only dream of their crazy test. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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The expansion Pathfinder Online: Planes of PowerAlso, 3 years from now when we're raiding deities Ithink their Champion should spontaneously combust everytime a guild kills their deity.o_O
What game are you going to be playing?
O_o
Thankfully that's an optional expansion that is on a separate server from the non-expansion players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here's the scenario: The dozen or so awsome, friendly, cooperative guilds on these forums have spent 3 years building a utopia of golden cities that all love each other.
Ryan finally says "this is not what he envisioned. Attack each other or else!"
We refuse to go to war so the devs each log in as a deity and lay waste to our cities. The Guilds of Golarion band together to take out the deities.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think we have the right of it, that the deities be represented by GM's. Sorry GM's part of your job description is now deity portfolio "x" :) and instead of the favor going to a single player, it should go to a settlement or hex that embodies that deity. So if a settlement or hex has a temple to that deity (which i think should be a requirement), then that settlement can be provided with a unique set of events or quests or w/e to garner favor with said deity. As for the boon of the deity, the whole hex would gain a bonus or the settlement that reflected the deity's portfolio. This type of aspect would set one neutral settlement from the next neutral settlement, as they could venerate different deities. And those who have no interest in it, could either not construct the temple or could choose not to perform the events.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This would be cool if implemented correctly, and as Axies said it may require GM intervention.
It brings up a good point, on the alignment scale, it would be a good idea for GW to have it so that you never reach a maximum in a certain quadrant, IE if you stay LG you should continue to get LG points for your LG actions, rather than just reaching LG and that is that.
I'm kind of hoping for something similar.
What I'd like to see is like you said: you still gain points for your LG actions. However, what I'd like to see is maybe a graph or something.
Twisting it a bit, LG would be on the right (so being max LG would be at 1000 (x) on Good/Evil, 1000 (y) on Law/Chaos. Positive being Lawful/Good, negative being Chaotic/Evil. For the others, it'd be Chaotic Good (1000,-1000), Lawful Evil (-1000,1000), Chaotic Evil (-1000,-1000), and Neutral (0,0))
And for maximum points, Let's say there's a throttle at 500,700 to be lawful good. You could still gain points, but it scales down and isn't as much as before you become lawful good. The maximum for a LG player is 1000,1000, but your settlement and other things that benefit from your actions will still get points from your acts (most likely, these points will be static, but in a similar case, if the settlement/company reaches say 5000,7000, it scales everyone's acts). Chaotic/Evil acts would cause a sharp drop in points, most likely to around neutral @ 0,0 if not immediate Evil (And in the case of accidental attacks, hopefully as long as compensation is given and nothing major happened, the victim could be forgiving and cancel the alignment drop, although probably not all the way. You should be more careful about who your attacking.) A similar case for settlements, but probably scaled down a bit (just one guy, it's not like the settlement is killing everyone. Although repeated incidences could start scaling up the loss.) Kind of hoping that initial good/lawful acts are static in giving points up to a "throttle" (Say 250, 2500 for settlements) and scale down a little bit as you go up, scaling down more on the second "throttle (500, 5000 for settlements), and then stopping at the maximum (1000, 10000 for settlements)
In a reverse, however, I'm hoping for no hard cap on Chaotic/Evil. Most likely instead of scaling down like LG as it goes up, the point drop may also be static, or may actually scale UP as you go down, making it take a lot of effort to redeem yourself. So for killing InnocentCrafterz, you would lose 120 points, but then the murder in you lusts to murder RandomPasserby, and you do, costing you a loss of 135.2 points. It could keep going and going despite you being despised by everyone, killing WanderingBard for a loss of 759.53. You may very well be at -9532.41,-11435.22, and considering how many people you murdered, you are going to have a heck of a time redeeming yourself and making it up to the world. Perhaps you will help the people you've wronged all these years. It will take a long time (good/lawful deeds will probably give small boosts of, say 9.23 points), but eventually, you have redeemed yourself, helped the world to be a better place, and you now have a pretty cool backstory (this is NOT me advocating to go murder and pillage the world, then redeem yourself. I'm hoping even if you make it all the way back up to LG, you will want to make sure you don't do anything bad, or suffer a drop. I'm also hoping there isn't an achievement for this, and somewhat: hoping there isn't achievements in PFO.)
Just my 2gp. Took a bit of thought, and it's probably still a mess.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally I have never been in a game where one group held all the power and was unopposed. People like conflict, other groups will form if only to topple those on top because they think they can.
Anyone been an a game with anything close to utopia?
No, but I did play a game where weekly guild battles was dominated by two guilds for the longest of time, both of whom I believe used hacks to do so.
EDIT: The worst part: They had the good names (Bliss and Dreams) I played Guild Battle once, and that was who I was (and others) were mostly killed by. Then again, Ranged weapons in that game are Overpowered to 11.
*in that game, ranks are worst to best in this order: F,E,D,C,B,A,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think we have the right of it, that the deities be represented by GM's. Sorry GM's part of your job description is now deity portfolio "x" :) and instead of the favor going to a single player, it should go to a settlement or hex that embodies that deity. So if a settlement or hex has a temple to that deity (which i think should be a requirement), then that settlement can be provided with a unique set of events or quests or w/e to garner favor with said deity. As for the boon of the deity, the whole hex would gain a bonus or the settlement that reflected the deity's portfolio. This type of aspect would set one neutral settlement from the next neutral settlement, as they could venerate different deities. And those who have no interest in it, could either not construct the temple or could choose not to perform the events.
I dont like the idea of a whole hex having to worship one god or pick one over the other. I mean what if the kingdom or guild I am in does not worship my god, do I leave or just convert to their worship in order to get the boon. It seems to divide players more then anything. A system where the player gets what they work for seems better to me.
Not to mention this will trigger crusades and holy wars. As well as hurt anyone who worships an evil god sense its a huge flag over their hex pretty much saying I am evil.
Then their are cities that will be made up of a bunch of religions. Do they have to compete for control or be forced to never have a boon because they choose to favor no god over the others.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I dont like the idea of a whole hex having to worship one god or pick one over the other. I mean what if the kingdom or guild I am in does not worship my god, do I leave or just convert to their worship in order to get the boon. It seems to divide players more then anything. A system where the player gets what they work for seems better to me.
Not to mention this will trigger crusades and holy wars. As well as hurt anyone who worships an evil god sense its a huge flag over their hex pretty much saying I am evil.
Then their are cities that will be made up of a bunch of religions. Do they have to compete for control or be forced to never have a boon because they choose to favor no god over the others.
Think of it more like Athena is the goddess of Athens, but they still worship other gods.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think we have the right of it, that the deities be represented by GM's. Sorry GM's part of your job description is now deity portfolio "x" :) and instead of the favor going to a single player, it should go to a settlement or hex that embodies that deity. So if a settlement or hex has a temple to that deity (which i think should be a requirement), then that settlement can be provided with a unique set of events or quests or w/e to garner favor with said deity. As for the boon of the deity, the whole hex would gain a bonus or the settlement that reflected the deity's portfolio. This type of aspect would set one neutral settlement from the next neutral settlement, as they could venerate different deities. And those who have no interest in it, could either not construct the temple or could choose not to perform the events.
Strong Greek roots in this thought. Apollo for Troy. Poseidon for Hellas. Athena for Odysseus, Telemachus, and Athens. Plenty of cultural precedence argues for it. Myth speaks to our elementary human natures.
This design concept is psychologically quite attractive.
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Goblin Squad Member
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From a community standpoint, Aeon has the right idea, though a good point about the blanket effects was raised, as well as exclusivity of patron gods.
- I'd like to see the primary goal be that of Champion for a single individual.
- That rigorous effort be necessary to be eligible to achieve it (though nothing that makes not getting it be a huge set back, merely very disappointing).
- GM approval, if not hand picking, on grounds of meta game actions, like RP, influencing the results.
- It would be nice if the person could receive community help, or otherwise involve the community without it being mandatory.
- I would like the player to enjoy some deity specific benefits of a substantial amount, the kind of amount that would make other players stop and take note, desire it for themselves, without being overpowering. To put it in the scope of combat, roughly 130% efficiency when compared apples to apples with a carbon character. 1 v 1 Champion wins vast majority, 2 v 1 Champion loses majority.
- Champion should have the (optional) ability to grant a blessing to their settlement, and by extension their kingdom at a far more reduced rate. Kingdom folk would barely notice it, but appreciate it nonetheless when it came in handy. Settlement ideally would be around 3x in potency than the kingdom, but still marginal.
- Term should be ~ 1 real month, or the circumstances for putting oneself forward and meeting prerequisites should only open after whatever period of time it needs to recharge. If no eligible players make it through in time they retain their title.
- Should be held to their deity's code of conduct. This could mean very strict LG behavior, or more do what you want (mostly) CN. Failure to comply means loss of Champion status, and ineligibility for maybe three terms after.
- Actual strength of Champion buff is probably in accord with settlement alignment efficiency. Where Champions of those deities with strictest codes of conduct are somewhat stronger than those who can do whatever. E.g. 140% instead of 130%.
- Favor should definitely play a role, take roughly one term in length to gather enough. Likely be tied to actions on a per god basis. One could value trade and thus successful transport contracts. Another could value Law and thus Criminal hunting gains favor. Many ways of gaining favor should be available, but require directed effort to achieve great amounts.
- Favor should still be currency for other things in game, personal conveniences that a deity could give like a small random blessing for a limited time. Many other uses should be possible. If you want to be a Champion you must forego these trivial uses though for a greater prize is at stake.