Concealment & Critical Hits

[Matt2VK]

If someone was under the effects of Concealment (Let's use the spell: Blur as a example) and the attacker rolled a 20 and did not miss. On his second roll to confirm the crit, does the attacker still have to roll the miss chance?

[Joanna Swiftblade]

Every time you hit an enemy who has concealment, you must roll miss chance for each individual attack.

[SlimGauge]

PRD wrote:

Concealment Miss Chance: Concealment gives the subject of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. Make the attack normally—if the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance d% roll to avoid being struck.

PRD wrote:

Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a “threat,” meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.

When you roll the natural 20, you have gotten a hit that is also a threat. This threat is a successful attack and triggers the concealment roll. If the concealment roll negates the hit, you're done, no hit. If the concealment roll does NOT negate the hit, then the attacker rolls to confirm. If this confirmation roll comes up a miss, you're done, apply normal damage. If this confirmation roll comes up a hit, do not re-roll concealment, as you've already been hit.

[Bad Sintax]

Yup, I would rule you've already hit, the second roll is to determine how hard you hit - concealment would therefore not apply.

[Matt2VK]

Joanna Swiftblade wrote:

Every time you hit an enemy who has concealment, you must roll miss chance for each individual attack.

The issue is, you've already hit with the nature 20. This is the roll to see if you can confirm a Critical. Do you have to roll a miss chance on that roll?

Example
Attack Roll 20 (possible Crit)
Chance to miss with Concealment; 58 (Hit)

Crit Confirm roll 17 (Confirmed Crit)
Do you roll a miss chance for this roll?

[Jeraa]

You only roll the miss chance once. The confirmation roll is not a separate attack - its an extension of the first attack roll.

A natural 20 only automatically overcomes the targets AC. You would still have to roll for the miss chance.

[SlimGauge]

No concealment for the confirmation roll. The target has already been hit.

[Matt2VK]

Here's the sentence that's given me problems -

To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made.

It's the same modifiers that is the issue. Does Concealment fall in here or not?

[Jeraa]

The miss chance is not a modifier to the attack roll. Its a defensive ability the defender rolls.

Quote:

Concealment Miss Chance: Concealment gives the subject of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. Make the attack normally—if the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance d% roll to avoid being struck. Multiple concealment conditions do not stack.

[Jiggy]

Concealment isn't a 'modifier', as defined in the Core Rulebook.

[Matt2VK]

Thanks.

That's what I was looking for. Figured it was this way but wanted to make sure it was there in writing.