This came up in the game tonight and I would appreciate some clarification. The Witch in the game used Demoralize on a Huge Centipede. This gives the centipede the shaken condition.
What kind of penalty is shaken's penalties? Is it generic, morale? Shaken is just a lesser form or Fear, but I wanted to say that since a bug is mindless, you screaming at it or whatever you do to demoralize isn't going to work, since its immune to mind-affecting effects.
Wasn't sure how this worked exactly.
Probably morale penalty, but no type is specified in the core book.
Shaken: A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked.
While the penalty itself is not qualified as morale, the shaken (and frightened/panicked) conditions is form of fear.
Shaken gives an untyped penalty, not a morale penalty. Vermin are immune to mind-affecting effects, but not specifically to fear. Most fear effects are mind-affecting, and thus covered anyway, but they are not necessarily so.
By RAW, Shaken does work on Vermin, and I feel like it should, to be honest. Have you not seen bugs scurry away from your stomping foot? They can instinctually afraid even if they lack any higher reasoning to understand that fear.
Dunno. Since insect behavior can be easily duplicated through simple computer programs, I would venture to guess that they don't feel fear in the way we think of the emotion. It's just that the insects that fled were the ones that survived to breed, not that they were necessarily afraid of anything. If flies felt fear, they'd leave if one was trying to kill the little buggers, yet all they do is try to take off if humans swat at them. Then they promptly attempt to land again on said human.
Basically, insects are robots. Heck, there's parasites that takes advantage of that programming to manipulate them.
Therefore, I wouldn't call Shaken a fear effect applicable to vermin. It's simply untyped, as the book says. Could be considered morale penalty I suppose, but the book says its untyped, so there it is.
Honestly, I feel like they should be immune to fear, as its in the mind, and although it has physical effects, it starts in the mind. Since bugs are immune to anything that starts in the brain, they are immmune to fear.
in fact most fear effects in the game are listed as mind-affecting, giving me pause for a moment when I see one that is not... using intimidate to demoralize somebody should certainly be mind-affecting, IMO, as you are 'psyching them out'.