How in general do you feel about players trying to manipulate the economy. Such as say a player opens a bank and thereby controls the flow of money or just in general using any of the many tricks in economic theory.
Other question. What spells or abilities have you noticed that really change the world? Such as because of the spell "wall of iron" iron is about as cheap as rock.
1) Made rules for it mostly as a trade bit. Church of Abadar is big in my PCs economy.
2) The following spells:
-Wall of stone/iron- as you mentioned speeds and cheapens BP big time
-Stone shape- With use of permanently altering stone wall
-Plant Growth- Faster farm production/ insta-orchards
-Crafter's Fortune- The mark up for MW items is huge this makes those checks easy and greatly reduces the time to make them = big profits for cheap magic
-Create Water- in the hands of a creative player, just wow
The following skills:
-Knowledge: Engineering- again depending on the player this is huge
-Craft: Alchemy- so many neat tricks
The Following Special abilities:
-Lightning lord- can reduce allot of armies to nothing
This Feat:
Leadership- just wow, for a high cha ruler here's a cohort and a bunch of trustworthy followers for a measly feat
I should have named this 101 way to build the economy
11. Control weather-The weather is always right in your kingdom
12. Remove Disease-help curb the effects of all those plages.
13. Paladins with cure disease mercy same reason
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Keep in mind a few things:
- NPCs, even followers and cohorts, don't work for free.
- Spells are expensive if an NPC casts them.
- PCs probably wouldn't enjoy being an everlasting fountain or magical building contractor.
- a kingdom that depends on magic, falls when it runs out. Magic isn't as sustainable as one would think.
- magical healing depends on the number of healers being able to handle the number of the sick. There are scenarios when the number of sick is far too much to be healed.
- most of the useful spells will be higher level, and higher level casters are not easy to come by.
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I had this issue crop up early in my game. My players argued that druids casting plant growth, tending the crops, helping farmers etc, would result in better yields. I made them appoint a druid to the role of minister of resources and then let them keep any leftover consumption from farms. For instance, if the kingdom uses 11 and you get 14 from 7 farms, the kingdom gains 3BP. Not earthshattering, but neither would druids casting plant growth.
I suggest finding ways of having spells like that represented in Kingdom building rules. Remember, a gold mine only gives you like +2 economy. Walls of stone and other magical effects aren't going to make you rich in Kingdom building terms.
Off course a gold mine only gives +2 economy gold does not make you rich it just makes gold worth less.
For me, wall of fire + permanency = unlimited steam power, or just unlimited hot water.
Players used this, along engineering and other spellwork, to give their capital hot and cold running water and, effectively, geothermally heated streets. The public baths were a big hit, as were ice free streets.
I have not played it yet...
But does the bordering kingdoms have high tax rates?
I had this issue crop up early in my game. My players argued that druids casting plant growth, tending the crops, helping farmers etc, would result in better yields. I made them appoint a druid to the role of minister of resources and then let them keep any leftover consumption from farms. For instance, if the kingdom uses 11 and you get 14 from 7 farms, the kingdom gains 3BP. Not earthshattering, but neither would druids casting plant growth.
Why would you need more then one Druid to cast plant growth it lasts a whole year and if a druid can cast it at all he can cast it at least once per day. The druid just has to go across the country once a year an easy feat if you have good roads.
Our group invested into a lyre of building (crafted by one PC). That meant taking some gold from the coffers once but now every large building is cheaper.
I have not played it yet...
But does the bordering kingdoms have high tax rates?
My group is now in book 4 and NEVER had any taxes.
Reason: The boni from the taxes is max +4 Economy which means 0.8 BP.If your group is only a little bit familiar with games like Civilization/Anno they will never have any problems with their economy at all (especially because of the magic item economy "issue")
@Topic:
I have a player who always tries to make money out of anything (crafting, magic items, bank etc.), I told him that Pathfinder is no Eco-Simulation and I use the rules from PFS for daily crafting earnings.
I have not played it yet...
But does the bordering kingdoms have high tax rates?
My group is now in book 4 and NEVER had any taxes.
Reason: The boni from the taxes is max +4 Economy which means 0.8 BP. (Funny thing: a 1 Hex Kingdom got the same bonus from it as a 200 Hex Kingdom^^)If your group is only a little bit familiar with games like Civilization/Anno they will never have any problems with their economy at all (especially because of the magic item economy "issue")
@Topic:
I have a player who always tries to make money out of anything (crafting, magic items, bank etc.), I told him that Pathfinder is no Eco-Simulation and I use the rules from PFS for daily crafting earnings.
There are lots of creative things that a player can do to improve a city with knowledge of magic and modern technology. Personally, any improvements they try I give a BP cost and a bennefit roughly equivalent to what a building of the same cost would give. Large scale things are hard to do with personal cash.
Read the Wall of iron spell description. The iron is not suitable for any use.
Other question. What spells or abilities have you noticed that really change the world? Such as because of the spell "wall of iron" iron is about as cheap as rock.
Doesn't make sense. If it is iron, even low quality iron, it can be refined.
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Doesn't make sense. If it is iron, even low quality iron, it can be refined.Read the Wall of iron spell description. The iron is not suitable for any use.
Other question. What spells or abilities have you noticed that really change the world? Such as because of the spell "wall of iron" iron is about as cheap as rock.
The spell say: "Iron created by this spell is not suitable for use in the creation of other objects and cannot be sold."
Maybe it is an alloy that require high temperatures to be refined or it can have impurities that can't be removed with medieval/renassaice refining techniques.
Or simply mean that it is unrefined iron and so you need to work it with craft (metallurgy) to refine it, so its value isn't that of refined iron.
Refined iron go for 1 sp/lbs. Using the crafting rules unrefined iron go for 3.33 cp/lbs.
Iron has a specific weight of 7.85, impure form of iron have a specific weight between 2.7-4.3, let's say WoI material as a specific weight of 3.6.
The wall of iron is 5'*5'*1", so 60"*60"*1"= 3.600 cubic inches.
152,4 cm*152,4cm*2.54cm 58.993,4304 cubic cm, or approximately 59 cubic decimeters. 212,4 kg of unrefined iron.
Let's say 1/3 of that is waste. 141,6 kg of refined iron, so 312 lbs.
The value of the unrefined iron is 10.38 gp multiplied by the caster level of the caster.
Paying the caster to cast wall of iron: 6*11=660 gp
Value of a WoI cast by a 11th level caster 114 gp.
Unrefined I can get behind.
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My above post assume that the impurities in the iron can be refined. That is not a given thing. My school days are well behind, but one of the lessons was about the quality of raw materials.
Some iron mineral require special blast furnaces that add a chemical process to remove impurities. Some of these processes were developed in the XIX century and without that kind of refining you would get iron with bad characteristics, unsuitable for most uses.
Maybe the WoI product is something similar.
I must admit that I am perfectly fine with a 11th level wizard gaining 110 gp by selling the raw iron produced by a WoI. Non adventuring wizards should get their money from somewhere.
Also to spell cost 50 gp to cast and you will soon glut the market. I always said that in any reasonable pathfinder world iron is as cheap as dirt.
Don't forget the time/work he needs to cut the wall into sellable bars. ;)