Black Pudding

[dragonkitten]

I recently ran an adventure that involved the PCs fighting a black pudding. Black Puddings have the extraordinary ability of split. Split occurs if they are hit by a slashing or piercing weapon. The single pudding is divided into two identical puddings with half as many hit points as the original. Being that the base black pudding in the Bestiary is huge does this mean every split produces a new, huge pudding? We had some debate about this during the game and ended up with the pudding getting smaller and smaller with each split.

[cwslyclgh]

I think RAW they stay the same size...

it would make logical sense for them to get smaller though... perhaps lose a size category per split or something down to a small sized minimum... I could see that.

[Haladir]

RAW, no. They remain huge. However, I would run it like you did.

I haven't run a black pudding encounter since a 3.0 one-shot more than a decade ago, but I ran it that each split dropped the size category of the resulting puddings by one. I think that just makes more sense. The only down side is that you need to recalculate AC, CMB, and CMD at each split (different size modifiers).

[Touc]

They remain huge according to RAW, just less dense (which is why they have less hp but still do the same damage).

I don't think you go wrong either way.

[Winterschuh]

spells like enlarge person state, that while width higth and depth double or half, the mass is eightfold.
so dont worry about the realism until the 3rd split.

and when at the third split, worry about your players

[Kazaan]

Winterschuh wrote:

spells like enlarge person state, that while width higth and depth double or half, the mass is eightfold.

so dont worry about the realism until the 3rd split.

and when at the third split, worry about your players

Um... that does actually make logical sense. If you factor the height, width, and depth by 2, you end up with an increase of 2 * 2 * 2, or 2^3. That comes out to a 8x factor. Or, to picture it another way, say you have a 1x1x1 cube that weighs 1 gram. You stack one identical cube on top (double the height alone) and you end up with a 2x1x1 volume that weighs 2 grams (double the mass). Take another two and stack them next to this shape and you end up with a 2x2x1 volume that weighs 4 grams (double width, double height, 4x original mass). Stack another 4 blocks behind it and you end up with 2x2x2 and 8 grams. Maths ftw.

[GM Enaris]

I have a follow-up question about the Black Pudding and don't want to make another thread, so THREADOMANCY

Does a black pudding's acid ignore the hardness of metal? If it does NOT, it would be nearly impossible to damage a +1 weapon, shield, or armor.

My second follow-up question is regarding the "full round" of contact. Does a creature that drops a two-handed weapon when grappled by a black pudding subject the weapon to the 21 damage per round as listed in the Acid ability?

[Ascalaphus]

GM Enaris wrote:

I have a follow-up question about the Black Pudding and don't want to make another thread, so THREADOMANCY

Does a black pudding's acid ignore the hardness of metal? If it does NOT, it would be nearly impossible to damage a +1 weapon, shield, or armor.

As I recall, some other acid-critters have been specifically described as ignoring hardness. Therefore I think that puddings don't ignore it, by design.

A +1 metal item will have hardness 12, so no worry at first. A wooden +1 item has only hardness 7 though so it could be in trouble.

I think the hardness is meant to apply, necessary even; otherwise most swords would be ruined on the first hit. Weapons often don't have all that many hit points, because they're usually not that thick. 10hp is about the norm I think.

PUDDING! wrote:

Acid (Ex) A black pudding secretes a digestive acid that dissolves organic material and metal quickly, but does not affect stone. Each time a creature suffers damage from a black pudding's acid, its clothing and armor take the same amount of damage from the acid. A DC 21 Reflex save prevents damage to clothing and armor. A metal or wooden weapon that strikes a black pudding takes 2d6 acid damage unless the weapon's wielder succeeds on a DC 21 Reflex save. If a black pudding remains in contact with a wooden or metal object for 1 full round, it inflicts 21 points of acid damage (no save) to the object. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

Corrosion (Ex) An opponent that is being constricted by a black pudding suffers a –4 penalty on Reflex saves made to resist acid damage applying to clothing and armor.

The critter's got some really nasty abilities here: if it manages to grapple you you'll first take Constrict damage, then your items get to make a fairly hard saving throw, and if you can't get out before a full round passes, they start taking truly massive damage.

GM Enaris wrote:

My second follow-up question is regarding the "full round" of contact. Does a creature that drops a two-handed weapon when grappled by a black pudding subject the weapon to the 21 damage per round as listed in the Acid ability?

I suppose that depends on where the item is dropped. Some thing to consider:

1) Pudding doesn't engulf, it only grabs. So it doesn't move in your square. If your sword is dropped into your own square it's out of immediate danger.
2) Dropping your sword is a free action, but you can only do it during your own turn because it's not called out as a an any-time free action.
3) The kicker: if your teammates stupidly split puddings while you're being grappled, the battlefield might get so crowded that a new pudding gets stacked into your square or the square where your sword is. The new puddings are also Huge after all, so it's gonna get very full...