Profession (sailor) checks impossible to make in combat?

[Ravingdork]

Ultimate Combat tells us that...

Driving Check rules wrote:

When a driver takes a driving action, she must make a driving check to determine the maneuverability and speed of the vehicle that round. The vehicle's propulsion determines what skill is used for the driving check. A driver can always make a Wisdom check in place of a driving check. The base DCs for all driving checks are DC 5 and DC 20. Use the lower DC when the driver is not in combat and the higher DC when the driver is in combat.

Alright, so base DC 20 during combat. Got it. However, the rules in Ultimate Combat also tell us...

Propulsion rules wrote:

Air Current: Air-current vehicles are rather diverse. They can be sailing ships, airships, land ships, or even gliders. A vehicle propelled by air with a crew of two or more creatures requires a Profession (sailor) or Knowledge (nature) check as its driving check. Because of their complexity, air-current vehicles always have their driving check DCs increased by 10. Smaller air-current vehicles, such as gliders and wind sleds, use Acrobatics or Fly instead. Much of their control depends on knowledge of flight or proper movements of the body to control the vehicle.

Smaller vehicles (size Large or smaller) can move at a speed of 60 feet, can move at twice that amount when they are moving with the air current, and have an acceleration of 30 feet. Larger vehicles can move at a speed of 90 feet, or twice that amount when they are moving with the air current, and have an acceleration of 30 feet.

Does that mean that one must make a DC 30 Profession (sailor) check to make to do most anything with their ship in combat? Why is it that even basic maneuvers are not just made more difficult for common sailors, but all but impossible?

[Tom Baumbach]

Aid Another being used by the crew makes those checks pretty easy.

[Ravingdork]

Is that allowed? I was under the impression that the crew was already spending all their actions making it possible for the guy at the wheel to make his check at all.

[Troubleshooter]

When it states that the driver is 'in combat', are you sure it means that you use the higher DCs if the ship is in combat? Are you sure it doesn't mean use the higher DCs if the pilot is in an active local melee?

[Ravingdork]

Also, what qualifies as "in combat?" Is that when another ship is attempting to ram/broadside you? Or when you have a crap ton of boarders trying to kill you and all your men whilst you all attempt to control the ship?

The latter would make a bit more sense.

EDIT: Ninja'd by a ninja robot named "Troubleshooter." :D

[CrystalSpellblade]

I've always figured "in combat" to be when you are fighting(either by attacking, using the withdraw action, going to flank an opponent, getting shot at and stuff like that). I wouldn't consider the driver to be in combat on the ship unless you had enemies aboard your ship or he decided to try and attack someone on the other ship(by using a ranged attack or spell for example).

[GM Goblin King]

CrystalSpellblade wrote:

I've always figured "in combat" to be when you are fighting(either by attacking, using the withdraw action, going to flank an opponent, getting shot at and stuff like that). I wouldn't consider the driver to be in combat on the ship unless you had enemies aboard your ship or he decided to try and attack someone on the other ship(by using a ranged attack or spell for example).

You're getting close.

While the driver is driving, he is not in combat. If he takes any actions other than a full round of driving, he may be in combat, and may not be able to use a standard to drive.

If 8 flanking ninjas materialize from nowhere and attack him, he's in combat. He can choose to spend his round driving, or do something else, assuming he's still alive. Using your standard to do anything but drive means you're not driving, and thus, you count the round as combat.