Transformative Melee Firearms

[blackbloodtroll]

How does the Transformative interact with Firearms that have melee capabilities?

Examples include: Dagger Pistol, Sword Cane Pistol, Musket Axe, and Musket Warhammer.

Can the ability be used to change it into any similar sized firearm?

When determining the appropriate size for transforming, do I use the melee portion(example Dagger), or firearm portion(example pistol)?

[blackbloodtroll]

Nothing?

[Scythia]

Personally, I'd only allow it to change the melee portion. Like from axe musket to hammer musket, to blade (spear?) musket. Since the effect is only applicable to melee weapons, that's as much as I'd have it affect.

Not sure if there's really an official stance on it though.

[blackbloodtroll]

You would allow the firearm portion continue to function?

[Scythia]

If a musket can be made that fires while attached to an axe head, or hammer ballast, and we know that having a pointy stab blade on a rifle works (pfrpg bayonet not withstanding), then why not? If it's transformative magic, I'd assume it transforms it into something functional, just different.

[blackbloodtroll]

By the way, the Dagger Pistol, Cane Sword Pistol, Musket Axe, and Musket Warhammer are real weapons.

[Scythia]

I've seen a sword cane gun and a dagger pistol in person. :)

The others, I can imagine so, people are always looking for different ways to do harm.

[blackbloodtroll]

I wonder how the enchantment works in general for Double Weapons.

For spells and enchantments, these weapons work like double weapons, so that should be where it starts.

[Scythia]

For a double weapon, I'd expect it'd change the affected part only, but it would have to do so in a way that maintained functionality, or else it would be changing the weapon type.

Let's look at a quarterstaff. I'd say you could change one side of it to an axe (like the orc double axe), or a sword (like the double bladed sword), or even a length of chain with a weight or a sickle (like either end of a kusarigama. Basically from one double weapon end to another. The other half would remain a useable length of staff, unless it was likewise empowered. That could create some bizarre combos, all from a seemingly simple staff.

By the by, I just realised you probably meant they were real weapons in game terms. I thought you meant IRL, that's what I was answering from. :P
I have Ultimate Combat, so I'm well aware of their game stat existence.

[blackbloodtroll]

No, I meant IRL. I was trying to avoid the "well those weapons don't exist, so who knows how it would work" kind of statements.

[Scythia]

Good, then I was correct the first time. I should learn to stop second guessing myself.

When magic is involved, "I don't know how that works" is usually not a valid answer. Nobody knows how magic works, because it's not something we can study and quantify outside of game terms. Besides, fantasy weaponry may be based on real world examples, but for our purposes, the game statistics are what matters more often.

What do you think of these interpretations?

[blackbloodtroll]

Transforming one end can end in some hairy situations that create more questions than answers.

Most double weapons are two handed weapons, and simply having them turn into another two handed weapon seems simpler.

[Scythia]

Then they cease to be double weapons, and the effect is affecting both ends, which contrasts with the rules for magic applied to double weapons.

Can you give me an example of a situation you think would arise from changing half a double weapon? Considering there have been stats for some pretty bizarre weapons, I can't see it being that bad.

[blackbloodtroll]

Meteor Hammer, which can be switched from a reach weapon, to a double weapon.

[Scythia]

I figured you'd say that. It was the only one I could think of too. Thing is, if used as a reach weapon it's no longer a double weapon, so again that would change the type, which would require changing the whole weapon, so unless both ends had the property, (in which case they'd just be turning the entire weapon into a meteor hammer), then transforming one end would only allow for the double weapon usage.

[blackbloodtroll]

Then there are things like the Double Chained Kama.

It is a double reach weapon. No need to "switch modes".

If one end is transformed, would it have reach?

What if I turn one end to a thrown weapon? Can I throw the whole thing?

[Scythia]

Are there thrown double weapons? If not the transformative property is meaningless in the discussion, you'd throw the same as any weapon not designed to be thrown.

Double chained kama is another double or reach weapon, so with only half of one, it's only double.