Hello, I am new and well am curious with some feedback upon this monk build I am currently in the process of making through imagination during my first time playing as the class. I am currently lvl 6 in a game and I am aiming to be a pure monk by 20. The title is basically the three arch-types I have planned to dip into, I'm hoping to have a monk that's mastered in at least the three styles panther,crane, and snake. so I dip into the three using the MoMS for the ability to have more than one style active and take a style feat without meeting a pre-req other than the previous style. the four winds for the Elemental Fist, slow time, aspect of the tiger and immortality. The dip into flow monk is for the ability to reflect a targeting spell effect back unto the caster. I do understand the sacrifice of FoB but I do think it can be worth it with the right feats and utilization of high dex and wis mod for more attacks at Full BAB within a round along with being hard to hit. The thing is I've always thought a monk had 2 forms of BAB one for combat which is based off his monk level and the other for meeting the reqs for a feat which is how I took it from reading the flurry section BUT when reading flurry the faq part mention that a 19 fighter/ 1 monk would get a BAB of +20 for flurry but yet a pure 20 monk gets a 18? I'm not understanding that. so would my unarmed attacks without FoB be my monk lvl+ my Str mod or is it the BAB given?
My apologies for the lengthy question and possibly confusing search for advice.
None of those are compatible.
Flowing Monk replaces Bonus Feats, just like Master of Many Styles does, both Flowing and Four Winds replace Stunning Fist. Both Four Winds and MoMS replace Perfect Self.
You can't have all 3 archetypes.
Also, your BaB equals your Monk level ONLY when you Flurry, you use the normal BaB for normal attacks.
None of those are compatible.
Flowing Monk replaces Bonus Feats, just like Master of Many Styles does, both Flowing and Four Winds replace Stunning Fist. Both Four Winds and MoMS replace Perfect Self.
You can't have all 3 archetypes.
Also, your BaB equals your Monk level ONLY when you Flurry, you use the normal BaB for normal attacks.
I thought the archtype was that they could be selected while leveling like at each level of a bonus feat I were to choose MoMs and at level 17 choose flow monk to replace quivering palm an such.
No the archetype replaces all class features at once.
No the archetype replaces all class features at once.
Oh... so.. does that mean I should give my DM a good kicking for the misleading of understanding? xD
No the archetype replaces all class features at once.Oh... so.. does that mean I should give my DM a good kicking for the misleading of understanding? xD
Or give him a kiss for allowing you to skirt around rules, although you're going to get confused once you get to a level where multiple archetypes try to affect the same ability...
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Just a heads-up!
While everyone is right about archetypes typically being an all-or-nothing deal, keep in mind that the Qinggong Monk from Ultimate Magic is not. You might be able to salvage some of what you want by combining elements of your initially chosen archetypes with the pick-and-choose Qinggong options!
The Qinggong monk is, AFAIK, a special case and the only archetype that works like that.
Just a heads-up!
While everyone is right about archetypes typically being an all-or-nothing deal, keep in mind that the Qinggong Monk from Ultimate Magic is not. You might be able to salvage some of what you want by combining elements of your initially chosen archetypes with the pick-and-choose Qinggong options!
The Qinggong monk is, AFAIK, a special case and the only archetype that works like that.
Related but un-related at the same time. Full of both useful and useless knowledge simultaneously. You might have just become my hero.
It's true, the Qinggong monk's mechanics work differently, but they are specifically listed as being treated differently.
The poster here does not have this archetype. And I actually do not know of any other archetype with the same mechanics.
Crossblooded gives you a Pseudo-Choose your class feature option.
Crossblooded gives you a Pseudo-Choose your class feature option.
But that's not an archetype, right? That's a sorcerer bloodline?
No the archetype replaces all class features at once.Oh... so.. does that mean I should give my DM a good kicking for the misleading of understanding? xDOr give him a kiss for allowing you to skirt around rules, although you're going to get confused once you get to a level where multiple archetypes try to affect the same ability...
well it was more like the "dip" method of it was more so, that I level as a normal monk but at a certain level like at 15 I choose flow to replace quivering palm, at lvl 17 I dip into four winds for aspect and etc such as earlier I dipped for the elemental fist and soon the slow time and etc. more so creating a hybrid I guess I didn't know that the archtypes were as a whole I thought through what my DM told me, that it was more so a way to replace a class feature with another via archtype dipping.
-PRD Page.Crossblooded gives you a Pseudo-Choose your class feature option.But that's not an archetype, right? That's a sorcerer bloodline?
Both are listed under Archetype.
well it was more like the "dip" method of it was more so, that I level as a normal monk but at a certain level like at 15 I choose flow to replace quivering palm, at lvl 17 I dip into four winds for aspect and etc such as earlier I dipped for the elemental fist and soon the slow time and etc. more so creating a hybrid I guess I didn't know that the archtypes were as a whole I thought through what my DM told me, that it was more so a way to replace a class feature with another via archtype dipping.No the archetype replaces all class features at once.Oh... so.. does that mean I should give my DM a good kicking for the misleading of understanding? xDOr give him a kiss for allowing you to skirt around rules, although you're going to get confused once you get to a level where multiple archetypes try to affect the same ability...
Some DMs play archetypes that way. I'm considering doing so, just so people can get rid of class features they don't like or particularly need, or even play due to their style. But it opens up a huge can of worms of possible exploitation.
-PRD Page.Crossblooded gives you a Pseudo-Choose your class feature option.But that's not an archetype, right? That's a sorcerer bloodline?Both are listed under Archetype.
Huh. You're right. I thought it was a bloodline. I stand corrected.
If you're already Lv6, you can chat with your GM, house-rule that you can pick and choose abilities, but that's not the way te rules are set up.
Reason being that the archetypes are supposed to be balanced among eachother, and if you get to stack and pick and choose the abilities you want, it opens up the possibility to get abilities with unforseen synergies that throw off game the balance like you were multiclass/munchkining in 3.5
Some archetypes get powerful abilities at different levels so you can get several powerful abilities. Then some don't interact nicely, like Invulnerable Rager replacing all the Barb features save Fast movement, but how does that interact with any of the archetypes that replace Trap-sense, or uncanny dodge?
so you can't pick and choose and makes everything work much more predictabely
You could if your DM told you you could, but it does bring about munchkin potential.
Definitely talk with your GM and show him the definition/rules on Archetypes in the APG. Since you're already level 6, he might decide to let you pick-and-choose.
Point being, archetypes are not pick-and-choose unless specifically listed as such, like the Qinggong Monk and the Cross-Blooded Sorcerer.
Archetypes are meant to be all-or-nothing templates that you place over your class to substitute in and out. You can take multiple archetypes, but only if neither one ever modifies or replaces the same ability.
Just like a Rogue with the Scout & Sniper Archetypes.
Just like a Rogue with the Scout & Sniper Archetypes.
Correct. Those don't ever target the same abilities, so they stack.
Do rogues even have an Archetype that can't stack with at least one other Archetype?
Yeah I believe when you get into the ARG's race archetypes it stops playing so nice...
Thanks and I did bring it up and he is still allowing it as such, soo umm advice on the character now that it's allowed? and can someone explain to me the editor thing on the monk page talking bout how a 19/1 fighter monk gets a +20 to flurry but yet if I am reading the flurry chart right the flurry chart is already applying the -2 (like twf) to the attack roll and so a lvl 1 monk means BAB 1-2= -1/-1 FoB... so how the heck is a 19f/1m a 20 flurry... shouldn't it still be an 18 at most like it is at the end of the flurry chart?
Wow... The Racial Archetypes do stop the stacking/synergy.
Basically, It is as if you were a full level 20 Fighter with the TWF feat only.
So 18/18/13/8/3 when flurrying.
When fighting without the Flurry it is simply a 19 BAB(is my math correct?).
Wow... The Racial Archetypes do stop the stacking/synergy.
Basically, It is as if you were a full level 20 Fighter with the TWF feat only.
So 18/18/13/8/3 when flurrying.
When fighting without the Flurry it is simply a 19 BAB(is my math correct?).
well your math seems to be correct on the portion without flurry but this here is what I am referring to and is why I'm asking about the +20 in a flurry
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk
[The monk rules for flurry of blows state: "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level." How does this interact with BAB from class levels and racial Hit Dice? Does a multiclassed fighter 19/monk 1 flurry as if his BAB were only +1?
A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total.
So a fighter 19/monk 1 has a normal BAB of +19. When he flurries, he treats his monk BAB as +1 (for his 1 level of monk) and still gets BAB +19 from his fighter levels, for a total flurry BAB of +20.]
Wow... The Racial Archetypes do stop the stacking/synergy.
Basically, It is as if you were a full level 20 Fighter with the TWF feat only.
So 18/18/13/8/3 when flurrying.
When fighting without the Flurry it is simply a 19 BAB(is my math correct?).
Yep. And, IIRC, your math is also correct.
When flurrying you use your Monk level as your BAB (virtually Full BAB).
In this case BAB 1. You then add in your Fighter BAB with is 19.
that equals 20 BAB.
While not Flurrying you only have the 19 BAB from Fighter Levels and the 0 BAB from Monk.
That equals 19 BAB.
Seems straight forward to me.
I understand that. So then why is it saying a total flurry BAB of 20 shouldn't it be a total flurry BAB of 18 when applying the considered penalty of twf?
It is your Base BAB for determining it before Penalties.
It has to do with the complications of Multiclassing.
ah, I always just kept scratching my head at why it was saying it being a total of 20 and not a total of 18 and etc. I guess I was reading it too literal.