Shadow Evocation Questions

[chaoskin]

Hello all its been some time shen i post here (sorry about my spelling)

im going to ask a few questions about DC and a few other questions about Shadow Evocation spells.

there 3 types i have find lesser (up to 2 lvl spells) form Shae (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/shae) here the web site for you, Shadow Evocation (up to 4 lvl spells), and Greater (up to 7 lvl spells)

the first one about DC if i use lesser (up to 2 lvl spells) (Burning Hands) shae are 3ed CL would the DC be 10base + 1lvl or 2lvl + 5int = 16 or 17? or 18 (10+3+5)?

2) use Shadow Evocation (up to 4 lvl spells) and cast a fireball what save comes first the will save or ref save ? will save first right then ref save ??? what lvl will be the spell 5th lvl or 3rd lvl for dc save and dice damage?

3) made the will save (useing Q2 Fireball) but fail the ref save. they will take 20% and half of that? and if the fail the will save they will take full damage but made thr ref save only half right?

4) i need to know if i can do this some one drops a darkness (none Shadow Conjuration) and use Scorching Ray thro lesser Shadow Evocation spell (black ray in a Darkness spell) do they get will save? they cant see the ray to make a will save?

EDIT
thank you
Chaoskin

[Sazbirtraz]

Hello chaoskin I will try to help you.

1) The DC is set by the CL of the shadow evocation, not the spell being copied:

Core Rulebook pg. 340 wrote:

...the save DC is set according to shadow evocation's level rather than the spell's normal level.

However, it looks like the DC for the Shae's specific spell-like ability is CHA based, so it would be 10(base) + 3(level) + CHA mod. So the Bestiary Shae's mod is 16 (10+3+3).

2) The Will and Reflex saves are essentially simultaneous, it shouldn't really matter which comes first, a creature hit by a shadow evocation fireball will get to make both before damage is applied. It is a 5th level spell for both save DC's (as noted above), so 10 + 5 + casting mod. Damage dice is based on caster level up to 10, as per the fireball spell, so a 9th level Wizard with 22 INT casting shadow evocation fireball has save DC's (Will and Ref) of 21, and deal 9d6 damage before save reductions (not counting feats or other modifiers to DCs or damage).

3) If they pass the Will save versus shadow evocation fireball, but fail the reflex save, they take 20% of the full damage. The fireball is still partially real, so they didn't "dodge" any of the damage like against a regular fireball, they just realized it wasn't a true fireball spell. And yes, if they fail the Will save it affects them just like a real fireball spell at full damage, and if they pass the Reflex save they will take half of the full damage.

4) By RAW they should still get their Will save if it is directly affecting them, regardless if they can see it clearly or not. If you would like to houserule it differently, that is your choice, but in this case seeing the spell doesn't really matter. It is essentially an illusion spell that is directly interacting with them, and a save should be allowed.

Hope this helps!

[chaoskin]

Sazbirtraz wrote:

However, it looks like the DC for the Shae's specific spell-like ability is CHA based, so it would be 10(base) + 3(level) + CHA mod. So the Bestiary Shae's mod is 16 (10+3+3).

i that Spell-like works off Int not Cha?

EDIT
yes that helps a lot

Thank You
Chaoskin

[Sazbirtraz]

Spell-like abilities usually run off Charisma, and the basic Shae presented in the monster manual has a listed CHA mod of +3 and a listed INT mod of +5. The DC for the Bestiary Shae's Lesser Shadow Evocation is 16, so the DC should be CHA based unless I am totally missing something.

It's simply that spell-like abilities and class based spell casting are not the same. So lets say for example you have a 9th level Shae Wizard that happens to have the same stats as the Shae in the Bestiary, with INT 21 and CHA 17 being the important ones. That Shae can use the spell-like Lesser Shadow Evocation to lets say Burning Hands, which will have a Will and Reflex save of DC 16 (CHA based because it is spell-like), and do 5d4 base damage.

That same Shae can also cast Shadow Evocation as a 5th level Wizard spell, creating a fireball again with DC's of 20 (INT based because it is an actual Wizard spell), and do 9d6 base damage.

Hope this helps again, Spell-likes can get a little funny, I recommend looking here for useful information about them specifically.