Myrmidarch, Ranged Spellstrike

[Debenart]

Ok have another question.

At 4th level, a myrmidarch can use spellstrike to cast a single-target touch attack ranged spell and deliver it through a ranged weapon attack. Even if the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies the attack. At 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects). Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost.
Ok so at 11th lv

A) Could a myrmidarch use a spell such as fire ball or lightning bolt as a “line of effect” spell. If so could I use a spell with an aria of effect?
If not could the spell damige be added to the attacks as part of the full attack action? (unlikely I think)

B) Would a spell like chain lightning work? As it has targets verses an aria? If this works.
Would it trigger after hitting the target, performing it’s traditional effect?
Because of it’s multiple targets would it instead be added as bonuses damage to each attack?

I ask this because I am really looking for the usefulness of the ability and the only spell I see that may work well with this is magic missile (which would now have a chance to miss.) or scorching ray. ( I still would miss out on making touch attacks for I believe)

I still think there may be some spells that may be nice to combo with, but right now I’m wondering about the usefulness of this ability/archetype.

[Michael Sayre]

A) No, Fireballs are not touch attack ranged spells. It is referring to spells like Scorching Ray, which creates additional rays based on level.
B) Also no. Again, Chain Lightning does not require a touch attack and so isn't a legal use of the ability.

As I understand the ability, it's essentially a free Rapid Shot + a spell effect for the magus, the same way Spellstrike functionally gives a standard Magus a Two-Weapon Fighting-like effect when used with Spell Combat.

It seems like a Myrmidarch using Ranged Spellstrike and Spell Combat at 11th level would actually be able to dump a ton of attacks with a bow, making his two standard iteratives granted by his BAB + 3 additional attacks to deliver the three rays Scorching Ray grants at 11th level. So you'd have a total of five attacks, 3 of which would do an extra 4d6 damage on a hit. Plus, 4 of the five attacks would be made at your highest BAB, so a pretty potent ability.

[Debenart]

Ok so what i'm getting is it's a very nice ablity but the only spell in pathfinder that realy makes it nice is scorching ray. Well other than word spells...

[Michael Sayre]

Debenart wrote:

Ok so what i'm getting is it's a very nice ablity but the only spell in pathfinder that realy makes it nice is scorching ray.

There's a feat that allows you to turn your touch spells into ranged touch spells (I'm trying to find it) that really opens this archetype up.

Arcana Theft is another spell that's really useful with this ability under teh right circumstances. You can also of course use all the standard go to's like Acid Arrow and Ray of Exhaustion while adding in your standard bow damage, which makes you exactly as good as most any other Magus.

[Michael Sayre]

Contagious Flame is also an awesome high-level spell for the Myrmidarch.
Also, Reach Spell allows you to cast any of your melee touch spells as ranged touch spells, so it's pretty much a must have for the Archetype.

[Umbranus]

The problem is you can't combine it with spell combat.
So you have to choose between making a full attack or a single attack with ranged spellstrike.

Spell combat wrote:

To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).

So you need a melee weapon. And the attacks have to be melee attacks.

At level 11 you get the ability to deliver multiple ranged touch attacks with ranged weapon attacks. So this is when the build starts to do something meaningful.
A bit late for most games.

[Michael Sayre]

Umbranus wrote:

The problem is you can't combine it with spell combat.

So you have to choose between making a full attack or a single attack with ranged spellstrike.

Spell combat wrote:

To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).

So you need a melee weapon. And the attacks have to be melee attacks.

At level 11 you get the ability to deliver multiple ranged touch attacks with ranged weapon attacks. So this is when the build starts to do something meaningful.
A bit late for most games.

Double-checked it and you are correct. The Myrmidarch still gets the normal Spellstrike ability in addition to Ranged Spellstrike though, so ultimately the Archetype is dropping his spell-casting supplemental abilities and replacing with fighter abilities. You probably end up in close to the same place as a standard Magus, gaining better range and consistentcy at the cost of having smaller novas.

[Dragonchess Player]

A) Not with the Ranged Spellstrike ability. If you want a magus who can do this, you need to take two levels in the arcane archer prestige class to gain Imbue Arrow.

B) Only spells that use a ranged touch attack can be delivered using the Ranged Spellstrike ability. Note that, as noted, Reach Spell lets you convert touch range spells (like chill touch) into spells that use a ranged touch attack.

A myrmidarch magus is a lot more versatile in delivering spells via weapon attacks, especially if taking a few levels of arcane archer.

[BrutaleBent]

So, just using this existing thread for these questions:

1) How does a magus (myrmidarch) use ranged spellstrike to cast a spell when it's clearly spell combat that allow's a magus to cast a spell while attacking in the first place? Is this an oversight on the devs part?

2) Assuming they CAN use spell combat with a bow: How does ranged spell strike work exactly? Let's have lvl 11 myrmidarch, with his +8/+3 BAB, using ranged spell strike with scorching ray.

Can he use rapid shot to fire three scorching ray loaded arrows at BAB +6/+6/+1? or is he stuck at +8/+3 (since ranged spellstrike doesn't, afaik, provide the free attack that normal spellstrike does)?

Any clarification of this would be appreciated. ;)

[Umbranus]

You cast the spell normally and deliver it with a ranged weapon attack instead of the normal ranged touch attack.
That's why you are limited to single attacks till level 11 when ranged spellstriking.

[ProfPotts]

BrutaleBent wrote:

1) How does a magus (myrmidarch) use ranged spellstrike to cast a spell when it's clearly spell combat that allow's a magus to cast a spell while attacking in the first place? Is this an oversight on the devs part?

Actually it's the spellstrike ability which allows you to deliver the 'free' attack you get as part of casting a melee touch attack (with the standard Spellstrike) or ranged touch attack (with the Myrmidarch's Ranged Spellstrike) via a weapon attack. Spell Combat does something different - it allows a Magus to cast a spell as well as make a full attack, all in the same round.

As to viable spells for the Ranged Spellstrike Class Feature: anything with 'ray' in the spell name is a good candidate, as are the aforementioned melee touch spells with the Reach Spell Metamagic Feat applied to them.

Without Reach Spell I count...

0-level: acid splash, ray of frost, disrupt undead
1st-level: ray of enfeeblement
2nd-level: acid arrow, scorching ray
3rd-level: force hook charge, ray of exhaustion
4th-level: none?
5th-level: none?
6th-level: contagious flame, disintegrate

... can anyone spot any more? I'm not sure on the RAW / RAI of spells like hydraulic push which target CMD at range... could possibly be candidates for Ranged Spellstrike depending on GM interpretation?