Scenario: I am a 9th-level fighter, and I want to craft myself a +1 ghost touch greatsword.
Problem: I cannot cast Plane Shift.
Solution: I hire a 9th level cleric who has the Cooperative Crafting feat and one point of Craft: Weapon to help me.
So between the two of us, it takes 4 days to add the enchantment to the sword.
How much do I owe him at the end of it? I've seen a couple of threads that say I just have to pay for the spell, but that seems ridiculously cheap; there's a difference between having him walk up for 5 minutes and cast a spell, and having him dedicate 8 hours a day for 4 days to help me craft an item.
Are there any official rules on this, or am I so obsessive-compulsive about crafting my own gear that the general answer is just, "At that level, why don't you just buy the danged sword?!?!"
(To which I'd reply, "Welcome to the Carrion Crown AP, where the treasure seems to be buried in unmarked graves far, far away from the action...)
EDIT: And just to be honest, I'm only 5th level right now, so maybe the AP picks up on the loot later as it has in all the APs I've GM'ed, but boy, from the other end it really does get frustrating when you're 5th level and you're ecstatic to get masterwork chainmail because it's better than anything else you can afford...
|
What's your Craft(Weapon) modifier?
It's only a +5 DC to craft a ghost touch sword without Plane Shift, or a DC 19 total (non-accelerated) for the ghost touch component. If you have at least +9 Craft (5 ranks, +3 class bonus, and +1 Int or masterwork tools) you can take 10 and make the sword without the spell.
You can also hire someone to cast Crafter's Fortune and get a +5 bonus on your craft check, which is effectively the equivalent of having the spell prerequisite, and it only costs a low-level spell slot and a moment of the caster's time.
Of course, you're not getting the other benefits of cooperative crafting, notably faster crafting time, but you're able to make the item.
What's your Craft(Weapon) modifier?
It's only a +5 DC to craft a ghost touch sword without Plane Shift, or a DC 19 total (non-accelerated) for the ghost touch component. If you have at least +9 Craft (5 ranks, +3 class bonus, and +1 Int or masterwork tools) you can take 10 and make the sword without the spell.
You can also hire someone to cast Crafter's Fortune and get a +5 bonus on your craft check, which is effectively the equivalent of having the spell prerequisite, and it only costs a low-level spell slot and a moment of the caster's time.
Of course, you're not getting the other benefits of cooperative crafting, notably faster crafting time, but you're able to make the item.
Wow! You solved my personal problem (at least one of them...); I hadn't known about the +5 DC to bypass the prereq spell. (Yes, my Craft: Weapon is at +12, so there's plenty of space there.)
But does that allow me to bypass the CL requirement? Ghost Touch still has a CL9 requirement, and Master Craftsman puts my CL at my ranks, which is only 5. (I guess I could just add another +5 to bypass another prereq, but at DC 24 I'd be playing with fire).
I'm also interested in what people think about the spells required: Is it a caster just wandering up for 5 minutes at the key moment and casting for you, or does the caster need Cooperative Crafting and have to be there the whole time?
EDIT: Now Weirdo's got me off and reading rules and stuff. Isn't that illegal in the "Rules" thread? Under creating magic weapons, it says the spell is expended every day of the crafting period, so if we're doing our leisurely Cooperative Crafting at 4 days (or at least the 3 I'm adding ghost touch if you want to break it into 'add +1' and then 'add ghost touch'), seems like I'd have to pay for 3-4 castings. Makes that +5 to DC seem like a MUCH better idea...
The 'shiny' of the cooperative feat is what Weirdo mentioned earlier, doubling the gp value of what is crafted per day with a +2 to the roll (which is essentially what aid another grants thematically).
Core wise, multiple people can craft an item, fighter works on the materials and the buddy spell caster from the group supplies the spells during the 'down time.' Paizo added in the +5 to ignore some prereqs and some feats so that non spellcasters could still craft magic items. As long as the spell is discharged during the crafting of the item that day it counts, doesn't matter if it is your friend/PC, hired help/NPC hired for the one cast that day as per the CRB spell casting costs, or from magic item (like a UMD'd scroll). It would follow the normal crafting rules.
|
There is a strong division about what is required to craft items with a CL higher than yours.
RAW it is possible, some people claim that you need to add +5 once (and the base DC is set on the actual CL of the item) other people think that you need to add that +5 for each level you are missing (so crafting a CL 9 item at with a actual caster level of 5 would add a +20 to your DC), some people say that it add nothing as the caster level isn't a prerequisite.
Personally I don't allow overcasting at all but in my home campaign the minimum CL of item depend on the spell needed to make the item, not on the CL written in the book.
This FAQ from SKR will help confound you ;-)
Pearl of Power: What is the caster level required to create this item?
Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.
However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st.
For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.
—Sean K Reynolds, 08/18/10
Search the forum a bit and you will find several threads with hundred of posts about the issue.
Hopefully next spring Campaign book will resolve some of the problems.
I appreciate the feedback, especially Diego's pointing out how in-flux all of this is.
To summarize my understanding:
(1) By RAW, you only need the caster to cast the spell once per day during the time the item is being crafted. So even if the caster doesn't have Cooperative Crafting, I could still pay him/her once per day for the spell, and make the item myself.
(2) Also by RAW, I could just take +5 to the craft DC and forget that I even need a caster. That seems the obvious way to go.
(3) In flux is the question of whether you can ignore the minimum CL by using a +5 DC. It's allowed by RAW, but I agree with Diego that as a GM I wouldn't allow it, simply to prevent situations such as my 5th level fighter cranking out +1 holy swords once a week (well, OK, 8 days).
Anything I missed/am wrong about?
|
|
(1) The caster with Plane shiftstill need to be there the whole 8 hours.
This piece of the rules maybe don't say it explicitly:
Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).
but some of SKR post have explained that collaborating a cleric without scribe scroll and a wizard can make together clerical scrolls, but they need to be both at the workstation for the whole crafting time.
The Cooperative Crafting feat advantage is the faster production time and the bonus to the skill check. Actually it is much more useful for people crafting non magical stuff (with its long production process) than for people crafting magic items.
Even the more costly magic items can be crafted in 200 days, 100 days increasing the DC by 5.
Some masterwork armor crafted in special materials can take more time.
|
|
(3) In flux is the question of whether you can ignore the minimum CL by using a +5 DC. It's allowed by RAW, but I agree with Diego that as a GM I wouldn't allow it, simply to prevent situations such as my 5th level fighter cranking out +1 holy swords once a week (well, OK, 8 days).
There's plenty of debate about whether you should be able to ignore the item caster level, and it's a good idea to have a GM-player talk about that in order to avoid confusion, but the RAW itself is not unclear. It's in Diego Rossi's SKR quote:
Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.
A 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl... He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.
The listed caster level of an item is not a prerequisite. The 3rd level wizard adds +5 to the DC for making a 3rd level pearl because he can't cast 3rd level spells, but he adds nothing to the DC for not being 5th level. RAW, you don't add +5 to the DC of crafting an item if your caster level is lower than that of the item.