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Here's the background:
I have a knife master/ scout rogue that I plan on multi-classing into shadow dancer around level 9. I'm going to end up taking a few ninja tricks as well, both as a rogue and as a shadow dancer, starting with ki pool as a rogue at level 8. As a SD I plan on taking vanishing trick and shadow clone, as well as a few other talents. After 6 levels of SD, I'll be heading back into rogue for the remainder of the AP. During that time I plan on taking the invisible blade master trick (if I can).
Here's the questions:
As far as I can tell, rogues and ninjas can gain the other's talents and tricks, and ninjas can gain advanced talents, but there is no rogue advanced talent that lets a rogue gain a ninja's master tricks. This seems an oversight to me. Why would it work for a ninja one way, but not a rogue in the reverse? I've asked my GM to look at it and see if he'll allow it, but I'd love to see it as an official option.
Shadow dancers get rogue talents, and thus can get ninja tricks. While I understand that levels in rogue and levels in SD don't stack for purposes of gaining advanced talents (or master tricks, if so allowed), how does it work when determining effects based on level, such as the duration of some of the various talents and tricks. If, by character level 11 (rogue 8/ SD 3), I were to take vanishing trick as a shadow dancer, would the duration be 3 rounds, or 11? I know that nowhere I can find does it say the levels do stack, but tricks is tricks, right?
Related to the above question is this: Once I've gone back into rogue for two levels, at level 16 I'm up for advanced talents. Assuming my GM let's me choose master tricks from the ninja list, I'd be taking invisible blade. But I'm taking that as a rogue. Now the duration, without any stacking, would be 10 rounds. That 10 rounds of greater invisibility, based on rogue levels. But I took the pre-req as a shadow dancer, and when I used vanishing act, (pre-invisible blade, and assuming no stacking) I'd have a max 6 rounds of normal invisibility.
I guess for me it's confusing because of how all the talents and tricks interact, seeing as how both base class and prestige class get talents. I hope this post isn't as confusing for those of you reading it. Thanks in advance for your input.
I'm playing a very similar character, though I'm putting a few levels of fighter in there to gain more feats / base attack & survivability. Have you asked your DM if he/she would be fine with it, if it's not a written rule?
Yeah, I've run all of this by my GM. I just thought I'd get a few more opinions, as he is newer to the seat behind the screen.
Multiclassing can be confusing, and I think this is a good example of how Pathfinder can discourage multiclassing (whether or not it was intentional). Let me answer your questions with another question. Is there some important reason why you need to be a rogue with ninja tricks? I'm assuming it's for dealing with traps, but it seems you'd be better off just being a ninja/shadowdancer and use the ninja tricks for whatever rogue talents you need.
EDIT: Forgot about the archetypes. I think you'd be better off asking your GM to let you use rogue archetypes and replace ninja class abilities instead. It's a lot less messy if he'll allow it.
Multiclassing can be confusing, and I think this is a good example of how Pathfinder can discourage multiclassing (whether or not it was intentional). Let me answer your questions with another question. Is there some important reason why you need to be a rogue with ninja tricks? I'm assuming it's for dealing with traps, but it seems you'd be better off just being a ninja/shadowdancer and use the ninja tricks for whatever rogue talents you need.
EDIT: Forgot about the archetypes. I think you'd be better off asking your GM to let you use rogue archetypes and replace ninja class abilities instead. It's a lot less messy if he'll allow it.
Character is already made, and level three. Besides, it's all about the concept for me. She's a rogue, not a ninja. The ninja tricks, to me, compliment the character only once she's a shadowdancer. I understand that ninja/shadowdancer is an easier route, but it's not the one I'm going down.
Well, if that's the case (and I salute your commitment to a character concept), you'll still have to deal with the power of your talents/tricks based on rogue levels only. And according to RAW, there is no way a rogue can use master tricks. This does seem like an oversight to me, so if your GM has no issues with advanced talents qualifying for master tricks, then you're good to go.
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The idea for my character was to add a "shadow" pool that was rules-wise the same as "ki" (if ok'd with my DM), though was shadowy in origin as it fitted with the flavour more. My character (run in forgotten realms) has acquired a partial shade template so the ninja talents with a shadow theme looked an instant fit.
The minor and major magic talents looked good, though the enhanced speed and acrobatics bonus from ki pool really fitted my flitting in and out of combat, using spring attack.
Approach your DM and ask, he may be new though with a little work on it I'm sure you could both come up with a solution that can make you both happy.
Well, if that's the case (and I salute your commitment to a character concept), you'll still have to deal with the power of your talents/tricks based on rogue levels only. And according to RAW, there is no way a rogue can use master tricks. This does seem like an oversight to me, so if your GM has no issues with advanced talents qualifying for master tricks, then you're good to go.
Using just rogue levels would be fine with me, as I'll always have more levels in that than shadowdancer. The question remains, what about the tricks I take as a shadowdancer? I assume I only use SD levels for those.
Also, Simon, I love the idea of re-skinning the ki pool as a shadow pool. It fits my character perfectly, as well. So..... Totally stealing it, thanks! ;)
The question remains, what about the tricks I take as a shadowdancer? I assume I only use SD levels for those
Ah, I knew I was forgetting something. The ability says it functions as the rogue talent class ability, so I would assume you use your rogue level. This also seems like an oversight to me. It should flat out tell you that you use x levels for rogue talents. However, this was created with only core material in mind, so the thought may have never occurred to them to add specific text. I say the levels should stack. It just makes sense if they're giving you the same class ability but from a different source. (Just like sneak attack or uncanny dodge from different sources.)
Steal away!!! : )
If you have access to advanced talents then the shadowdancer talents are also advanced.
Taken from the shadowdancer prestige class: " If a shadowdancer has the advanced talents rogue class feature, she can choose from the advanced talents list instead."
I'm aware of that part, it's that there's no advanced talent for taking a ninja's master tricks, though I feel like there should be.