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Admit it, you would all love to be on the Moon with Jet packs. Heinlein being an avid Anti-communist perhaps did more to set back the future of the USA. For him there was no equal share of the Space Empire for the Workers who were expected to build it and be pushed aside when they couldn't. It was all about the flag and the 'inheritors of power' who would 'take over' when it was built. That's not a future - that's a terrorist at the back of a cave ordering New York Pizza and expecting delivery in thirty minutes or else.
The Russian and Chinese Experience with Communism - it may have been tyrannical and ruthless with human rights but their economies are now in a position where while they will be racing each other to Mars and Beyond, the USA will be a Ship sinking while the Workers riot for a one-share of their labors and Drown forgotten as resources are poured into making things well for the few who govern the many.
If you think that isn't true pop down to 'Katrinaville' and do a head count to see if the million Displaced Americans have homes and jobs again (not that that problem didn't have a solution- the USA could have picked up all the insurance payout and given every family a shipping container house to live in that would have been better that the cardboard they have somehow been expected to live in for centuries). Katrina wasn't just about doing well by its citizens - the reward for failure was loss of Face.
All the USA has to do is make all its citizens equal shareholders in Profits and invest in all the things that will make it grow (like Energy Production) and that will lift all its citizens upward out of the abyss they are rapidly being used to fill so the people throwing them in there can cross safely.
Faith in a system that doesn't betray and abandon them - but rewards them with an equal share that cant be taken away because those who decide they can govern others - believe that less is more is better than the horror offered by Religious Zealotry, Corporate Slavery, or plain old Despotism.
So why shouldn't you be rewarded with a home for life for building that city on the Moon? Why shouldn't you as its builder - rather than the Henry Ford Dreamers - be entitled to a place on the Starships that are sent to colonize other worlds?
Clearly you've never read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Moreover, it is WAY too early for geo-political angst and zealotry. I haven't had my coffee yet.
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Clearly you've never read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Moreover, it is WAY too early for geo-political angst and zealotry. I haven't had my coffee yet.
10:40PM here...Wake up sweety. Damn you Americans for sleeping in for 15 hours worth of Time Zones. What do you think that when the Apocalypse hits it will give you 15 hours to get to the Vault with the other Survivors while those of us in forward-time die with no warning? maybe if we had built the Vault it would take the impact fifteen hours earlier and experience 'temporal hardening' providing a 15 hour space-time buffer of protection by the time you get inside.
Now is this Heinlein you speak of from his early works or his cynical period?
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I really doubt that Robert Heinlein for all his work had any significant impact on the space program, pro or con.
His affect was far more dangerous and subtle - he helped undermine the system where workers got rewards that were permanent and guaranteed a share of the profits forever. That had an affect on the Space Program. Removing the reward of a home on the moon for the workers who build it sowed the seeds of destruction for the USA.
WW II gave us rockets, computers, along with the rest of the horrors.
The race to the moon was to reach the ultimate cold war high ground.....whoever gets to the moon first can shoot the other guys' rockets down and make big moonrock railguns to throw at cities if they want to......
I think the sad truth is that humankind is never at its best unless there's a war on. Sun Tzu called it "death ground" or somesuch. Put people on death ground, like the allies at Normandy, with no retreat and no hope but to fight and they'll fight like no other time. And they come up with all sorts of groovy stuff.......V-2's to shoot rockets at Washington D.C.,........computers to break the Enigma Code,......
along with all the horrors. I don't want to trivialize that in the least.
I don't think enough people grokked Heinlein to blame him for any of this though. If anything, blame common sense.
WW II gave us rockets, computers, along with the rest of the horrors.
The race to the moon was to reach the ultimate cold war high ground.....whoever gets to the moon first can shoot the other guys' rockets down and make big moonrock railguns to throw at cities if they want to......
Save that such things remain in the realm of science fiction. After the expense of merely getting the first three men on the moon, even the United States wrote the entire adventure off as a propaganda victory and went no further other than planting a few more flags on the lunar surface. The U.S. had tried to bully the world with the Bomb and had failed. I guess at that point militarising the Moon was no longer an attractive option, so we went with the "We Came In Peace For All Mankind" option instead.
P.S. Given the nature of lunar dust, living in a Moonbase may very well be the unhealthy equivalent of moving into a coal mine.
Right on; barring an actual refutation, instead of an affirmation that the "glass is, indeed, half empty," I'll hazard that my statement still stands.
There's nothing here that humans with a "can do" attitude haven't pulled off in the past. We used to take down wooly mammoth with flint spears and other such nonsense.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut at the foot of a mountain. One evening a thief visited the hut only to discover there was nothing to steal.
Ryokan returned and caught him. "You have come a long way to visit me," he told the prowler, "and you should not return empty-handed. Please take my clothes as a gift."
The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away.
Ryoken sat naked, watching the moon. "Poor fellow," he mused, "I wish I could have given him this beautiful moon."
Hee hee!
Down with Robert Heinlein!
Vive le Comrade Dingo!
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I always liked Heinlein's sci fi better than Karl Marx's anyway.
Down with Spanky!
There's nothing here that humans with a "can do" attitude haven't pulled off in the past. We used to take down wooly mammoth with flint spears and other such nonsense.In this context, that statement didn't exactly make a lot of sense. Can you explain what you intended a bit further?
I believe he was replying to your "that stuff is only sci-fi" comment, basically saying "Yeah... for now".
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Down with Spanky!
They're after me Lucky Charms,.....and they want to exploit the Cost of Spanking I put into them.
M-C-M, b$~+!es!!!
Taken from Das Spankapital, specifically chapter 69: The Spanking Theory of Value.
I believe he was replying to your "that stuff is only sci-fi" comment, basically saying "Yeah... for now".There's nothing here that humans with a "can do" attitude haven't pulled off in the past. We used to take down wooly mammoth with flint spears and other such nonsense.In this context, that statement didn't exactly make a lot of sense. Can you explain what you intended a bit further?
I had a point, but I'm frankly bored with the whole thing by now.
I believe he was replying to your "that stuff is only sci-fi" comment, basically saying "Yeah... for now".There's nothing here that humans with a "can do" attitude haven't pulled off in the past. We used to take down wooly mammoth with flint spears and other such nonsense.In this context, that statement didn't exactly make a lot of sense. Can you explain what you intended a bit further?I had a point, but I'm frankly bored with the whole thing by now.
I mean, come on. We're not in outer space yet. And it's Heinlein's fault for not reading the Little Red Tractor Beam Book or whatever. Damn him! Damn him and his whackadoo libertarianism and all that adoration of free love!!!
Where's my condom?
*Searches for tinfoil hat*
Actually a friend of mine was telling me the other day about how one of the biggest reasons we aren't already living on Mars is that NASA has always been... reluctant to allow the use of technology unproven in space. So, while they did test things over the years, their system of "Oh, we can't let you do that, it hasn't been tested in space" created a catch 22 for many space advancements. They refuse to allow it to be tested in space because it hasn't been tested in space yet. Of course, he explained it a lot better than I am, so I hope it at least makes some sense.
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Grokk out with your cock out!
Grokk out with your cock out!
Clearly you've never read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Moreover, it is WAY too early for geo-political angst and zealotry. I haven't had my coffee yet.10:40PM here...Wake up sweety. Damn you Americans for sleeping in for 15 hours worth of Time Zones. What do you think that when the Apocalypse hits it will give you 15 hours to get to the Vault with the other Survivors while those of us in forward-time die with no warning? maybe if we had built the Vault it would take the impact fifteen hours earlier and experience 'temporal hardening' providing a 15 hour space-time buffer of protection by the time you get inside.
Now is this Heinlein you speak of from his early works or his cynical period?
Well, it is like two days later and it is still WAY too early for this kind of angst. :D
See me after 21-December. If the galactic alignment doesn't slate-wipe us all, I'll be happy to entertain your utterly misplaced notions. On second thought, since I don't want you dying in ignorance later this month... I'll answer a few of your burning questions.Heinlein had a dose of cynicism about a variety of things throughout his works... so 'early' or 'late' you'll see it. Moon is one of his earlier and, to my mind, best works. His later stuff wasn't so much defined by cynicism as showing his growing fixation with sex. I love a couple of his later books but you get about halfway through any one of them and you say, "Really, Rob? I think you need to back off that Viagra prescription a bit."
Apocalypse? You Aussies call it the "Poxeclipse". (As recorded in the AATA - Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome) Not to worry, you won't see me scuttling towards shelter when the world gets hammered. I've got a lawn-chair and a drink ready. I intend to watch the spectacle and then be consumed by it. In the words of the immortal prophets Def Leppard... It is better to burn out than fade away.
The Russian and Chinese Experience with Communism - it may have been tyrannical and ruthless with human rights but their economies are now in a position where while they will be racing each other to Mars and Beyond, the USA will be a Ship sinking while the Workers riot for a one-share of their labors and Drown forgotten as resources are poured into making things well for the few who govern the many.
Dingo... Dingo... Dingo... be more like Toto and less like Dorothy. The thing you need to sniff out is the man behind the curtain. Don't buy into the illusion that was crafted to keep you from seeing the truth. You poor benighted canine. The battle between the "-isms" was just a game of Three Card Monty. The power players that truly run things are beyond the systems. Honestly, if you wanna weave conspiracy theories at least look to the really FUN ones. :) For instance...
Russian 'Communism' and US 'Imperialism' were brilliant successes at what they were designed to do - keep the masses afraid of the bogeyman on the other side of the border so that those in power could stay in power. In reality, the US & the USSR have been working as a joint government since the 50's. The Cold War was the greatest con ever played. Most of the larger nations are in on the same game. The ruling class want to remain the ruling class and playing off manufactured fears to keep the 'commoners' in line is the easiest way to do that.
The folks that 'really run things' in NASA, the EU Space Agency, and worldwide have kept us away from Mars through a variety of shell games. Why? Because they - a multinational group of the power elite - are already on Mars and have been for quite some time. It all goes back to Roswell... "Oh ho!" you say, "SR, you have no proof of this!"
Don't I? Look at the inordinate number of launch, test, and technical failures of explorers slated to go to Mars. Review the suspicious failures of craft trying to land anywhere near the South Polar region and those designed to search radio and other communications frequencies. : nods sagely : Oh, yes, my friend... a select group of humanity has a base on the Red Planet.
See now THAT is far more juicy than "Heinlein sidetracked the Space Program".
...not sure if serious...
Take it any way you like. ;)
In the words of the immortal prophets Def Leppard... It is better to burn out than fade away.