Can a homonculus gain more than 3 HD?


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The homunculus' Bestiary entry says you may add additional Hit Dice (plural), but the Ultimate Magic's construct modification rules, says you can only increase a construct's existing hit dice by 50%.

That would mean you could only add a single Hit Die (singular) to a homunculus.

Which is correct? Could I make a 10 HD homunculus if I was willing to pay for it?

Grand Lodge

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Ultimate Magic is talking about adding HD after the fact.

At the time of construction, you can add as much HD as you can afford.

I was confused at first too.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That's an interesting theory. Do you have anything to back it up?

Also, assuming your statement is true, does the 50% increase apply against a base construct, or against the base hit dice when it is created?

For example, could I create a homunculus with 10 HD, then later increase it by 5 more (50% of 10)?

Grand Lodge

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You are referring to the Hit Dice Modification, under the Construct Modification rules.

These are modifications that can be made after the fact.

In the Construction entry for Homunculus, it states:

Bestiary wrote:

A homunculus with

more than 2 Hit Dice can be created, but each additional
Hit Die adds +2,000 gp to the cost to create.

Other constructs have their own specifics for adding HD at construction.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So that's a "yes" then?

Grand Lodge

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Yes, and the initial HD at creation can increase the Construct's size.

Construct Modifications are a subset of the Construct creation rules, and can be applied after the Construct is created.

They have there own rules and limitations.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So when UM says HD can only be increased by 50%, is it referring to the original allotment listed in the Bestiary, or the amount the construct begins with at its creation (which is determined by the creator)?

Grand Lodge

Time of creation.

Nothing contradicts that either.

Three or ten HD, the same rules apply for modifications.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sorry, I just get the nagging feeling that the designers didn't intend for a 10th-level character to be able to create a 20 HD homunculus then advance it to 30 HD for only 56,000gp.

Who needs the PC then? I'll just play the homunculus.

Grand Lodge

That's still a lot of money.

Though, for a Beast-Bonded Witch, it may be worth it.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Now THAT'S an awesome idea! But how do you mix construct rules with that of familiar rules?

Wouldn't your familiar still have his "effective" HD set by your witch level?

Grand Lodge

Saving some money for other modifications may be worth it.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Saving some money for other modifications may be worth it.

Yeah, like +20 Dexterity. (I honestly can't believe they didn't put a hard limit on the ability score increase modification.)

Grand Lodge

Well, I suppose money was the intended limiter.


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So a character level 20 with 880,000 gp (according to the Table: Character Wealth by Level) could craft an homunculus with a +100 str bonus (500,000 / 5,000) and 100 hit dice (200,000/2000).

Is that 20 attacks for 100 damage each? That's 2000 hp of damage per round. Imagine him with a composite longbow +100 str (10,000 gp to fabricate) :O

His hitpoints are 5.5*100 = 550.

The total is 710,000 gp, less than the 880,000 gp for a character of that level.

Dark Archive

Ravingdork wrote:

Now THAT'S an awesome idea! But how do you mix construct rules with that of familiar rules?

Wouldn't your familiar still have his "effective" HD set by your witch level?

I've been singing the praises of the Homonculus familiar for witches ever since the beast-bonded witch archetype came out. It's uber.

The homonculus would still be considered a 20 HD creature but it would only have the HP's of a normal familiar of it's level.

Grand Lodge

Why would being a familiar lower it's HD?

Isn't that along the same lines of being stupider(lower Int) by being a familiar, because that has been proven wrong.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Argento wrote:

So a character level 20 with 880,000 gp (according to the Table: Character Wealth by Level) could craft an homunculus with a +100 str bonus (500,000 / 5,000) and 100 hit dice (200,000/2000).

Is that 20 attacks for 100 damage each? That's 2000 hp of damage per round. Imagine him with a composite longbow +100 str (10,000 gp to fabricate) :O

His hitpoints are 5.5*100 = 550.

The total is 710,000 gp, less than the 880,000 gp for a character of that level.

Adding adaptive to your composite bow only costs 1,000gp and allows you to use your full strength modifier to damage regardless of how high (or low) it is. I just saved you 9,000gp. You're welcome.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Why would being a familiar lower it's HD?

Isn't that along the same lines of being stupider(lower Int) by being a familiar, because that has been proven wrong.

That's news to me. Source?

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