Here is the scenario.
Lets Assume we have a level 3 Rogue/Level 5 Mind Blade
The relevant stuff here is as follows:
-Sneak Attack 2D6
-Rogue Talent: Underhanded
-Ability to Form Light Mind Blade and Throw it 20 feet.
-Ability to Quick Draw the mind blade as a free action as per the mind blade class ability.
Here is the general setup.
-Unsuspecting Victim assumes the PC is unarmed. The PC has no weapons on them. The "Mind blade" is not formed at this time. The NPCs are under the impression that the PC is unarmed.
-The PC then uses "Under Handed" assuming that since the mind blade is not formed, and his victims have already assumed he's unarmed, that would mean that they are not aware of his "hidden weapon".
-The PC will draw his mind blade as a "free action" as per the mind blade quick draw class ability and attack.
Here are the questions:
1.) Since the Victim has assumed that the PC is unarmed (because the mind blade was not initially drawn) and the PC was assumed to have no weapons on them, does that Justify a "Surprise Round" where the victim would be Flatfooted when the PC draws the mind blade and attacks? Remember the Mind Blade is being drawn as a free action.
2.) Does the "Underhanded" talent come into play? Remember that since the PC had no "weapons" on them he was assumed to be unarmed. Is an unformed Mind blade considered a weapon that the Victim was not aware of?
If this all works in theory (which I don't see any reason why it shouldn't) then the situation should play out like this.
-The unsuspecting Victim, is aware that the PC has no weapons on them, is not aware that they are a mind blade, and thus assumes that they are dealing with an unarmed PC.
-The PC, sent to assassinate this victim, has his mind blade, which is unformed until he is ready to strike. When he does strike, the mind blade can be drawn as a free action.
-Once the Mind blade is drawn and combat initiates, the victim is assumed to be caught by surprise as they had assumed the PC had no weapons on them. This would mean that they are flat footed. Also since the PC is using a weapon that the victim was unaware of the PC will deal Maximum Sneak Attack Damage.
Mind you this whole scenario also assumes that you don't need to conceal a weapon that is technically "Not there" until the PC chooses to form it as a free action.
So what do you think: Does it work?
Perception check vs. the Rogue's slight-of-hand to get the suprise round, otherwise its initiative.
If the victim fails the perception check then its a suprise round and Underhanded counts...
Does Perception even come into play. The Mind Blade is not only undrawn, it is Unformed meaning that it is not even there to be perceived until it is drawn as a free action.
And if we are going to bring the Perception rules into play this brings up other questions. Underhanded grants a +4 bonus to the Sleight of Hand check to conceal the weapon. Since an unformed mind blade is technically not even there does that mean the PC gets an additional +4 bonus (which is untyped) as per the Sleight of Hand skill regarding an extremely small object.
A lot the questions arise from what the mind blade actually is. Technically the Mind Blade isn't even there until the PC draws/forms it, which at 5th level is executed as a free action. And a Free action translates into time as a nearly effortless instantaneous action.
So for me, a weapon that is not there, until the instant that you are attacked with it, would require no perception check on the part of the victim as there is nothing there for them to perceive.
Sorry: Class = Soul Knife
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife
Mindblade is part of its class abilities as is the quick draw ability at level 5.
I'd actually say a Sense Motive (hunch) check would be more appropriate RAW. If they make that (ie know the character is intent on some harmful action weapon or not) then no surprise round. Perception would be more appropriate if the character were attempting to hide, which they aren't, they are in plain sight trying to get close enough to strike.
Mind blade doesn't really change anything from a concealed weapon situation.
The matter at hand here, is whether or not the character get a surprise round.
That fact that you are unarmed, does not automatically mean that the enemy is unaware. Actually the most dangerous people around tend to walk around wearing no weapons.
The point being, since spellcaster don't automatically get a surprise round, if the initiate a battle by spellcasting, you don't automatically get it, by creating a mind blade and attacking with it.
Nonetheless, the are surely situations where you get a surprise round, by attacking someone who does not consider you a threat at all. It might be relevant to call for a perception check for them to react, maybe not.
In other situations, such as you surrounded by guards, or directly facing an enemy with his weapons drawn, there is really no basis for a surprise round, since they are very much aware of your actions.
I'd actually say a Sense Motive (hunch) check would be more appropriate RAW. If they make that (ie know the character is intent on some harmful action weapon or not) then no surprise round. Perception would be more appropriate if the character were attempting to hide, which they aren't, they are in plain sight trying to get close enough to strike.Yeah, depending on the situation - in a "friendly" conversation, then Sense Motive. In a mexican standoff, then Perception... or something.
To quote the SRD
"The Surprise RoundIf some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs."
If your standing there in front of a guy saying "Go for your guns, ya lilly livered mollusc afore I fill ya with more holes than mah teeth." I would contend that both you and he are aware of eachother, therefore removing the surprise round and dropping it down to initiative on whom acts first.
At the very least, to have a surprise round, you would need to have some or all parties viewing eachother as a non-threat (they are not aware that they are opponents rather than just outright not aware). That would be sense motive and bluff rolls.... possibly diplomacy for long enough as well to change the attitute to friendly instead of neutral. Just because right now your talking to the Devil instead of stabbing it, doesn't mean that when it jumps you it gets a surprise round.
If they bothered to search the soulknife, they are at least regarding him as a potential threat. This is a world where people can conjure lightning from their eyes and fire from.... Never mind. The point being that if I was an experienced anything and found no weapons of any kind on someone who looked 'highly capable' I'd be more likely to assume a dragon has taken an interest in what I'm doing than saying "Ah... he has no weapons. He is of no threat to me."
People who say that often die at about level 2 and don't make it up to the CR 8 encounters.