1. I saw some people commenting on forms that belt of giant strength did not stack with wildshape… this would be incorrect because wildshape strength bonus is a size bonus right?
2. Funny question (or at least image), if you were a hippo could you use boots of haste fitted to your hippo feet? After all some people use barding while wildshaped.
“When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, orvermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form.”
3. How much does the wild enhancement usually cost? I know its a +3 enhancement if that helps.
4. The text bellow leads me to believe that druids in wildshape or who use wild shape can basically ignore polymorph spells directed at them if they so choose. Is this assumption correct? Also it brings out the question of if spells like longstrider or aspect of the bear work on wildshape because they cause physical changes (or superficial).
“You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.”
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1. Belt of Giant Strength is an enhancement bonus. Wildshape is a size bonus. You are correct.
2. Boots of haste do not fit on a hippo, it cannot use them. With that said if you are wearing Boots of Haste when you wildshape they are still on your feet but not active (unless you activated them before you wildshaped).
3. +1 armor with the wild enhancement = 16,000gp not including the masterwork armor itself.
4. This is correct, but I would say that a spell like Baleful Polymorph still affects you normally. Ie: if you fail your save it takes the place of your current polymorph effect.
Longstrider is not a polymorph effect. It works fine.
Aspect of the Bear is a polymorph effect. It would replace the polymorph effect you are currently using (including Wild Shape) if you allowed it to.
- Gauss
4. So it will always have a "transmutation (polymorph)" rather than a "transmutation" when it doesn't work together?
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Correct unless the spell description or polymorph rules state otherwise.
Example where they do not stack: Enlarge Person is a "Transmutation" but still does not stack with "Transmutation (polymorph)" due to the polymorph rules.
In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
Example where things do stack: Assume you cast Beast Shape III "Transmutation (polymorph)" and turn into a Dire Tiger (no darkvision). Also assume you have Darkvision "Transmutation" cast upon you at some point during that day. They stack. You are now a Dire Tiger with Darkvision.
- Gauss
u da man!
Naw, I am an upright ape that can read. No man here. Either that or I am a machine. Again, not a man. Which is it? Who's to say?
- Gauss
Thanks Weirdo that made me laugh.
- Gauss
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another question for Gauss or anyone....
natural spell allows you to cast spells in wild shape form. is it correct that you can still not speak while in wild shape form?????????????
if party equips you with magic items after you wildshape, do they meld back in when end whild shape or form on your now normal self/
OR would they stay melded in and reappear if you became that same wild shape form again???????????
If you Wildshape into a form that can speak, you can do so.
That would include Elementals, or Parrots. Not most animals.
If you Wildshape into a form that can speak, you can do so.
That would include Elementals, or Parrots. Not most animals.
Elementals yes, but wasn't it ruled no as parrots? (BS spell line turns you into an average member of the species, average parrots don't speak a language)
Maybe I'm recalling that wrong though.The Wild Speech feat from UM IIRC let's you talk as an animal.
I'm not sure... It shouldn't really matter whether or not the creature typically knows a language, but whether they can /speak words/ or not. The entry for Parrots in Ult Equipment says they can be trained to mimic human voices, which seems good enough for me. A human raised by wolves wouldn't know anything that counts as a language in-game either, but they have the same human capacity for speech. Using language listings in Bestiary entries is just a convenient short-hand since most otherwise don't give any attention to the subject.
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It doesn't matter that elementals only speak elemental languages - the fact that they can speak at all allows a character polymorphed / wild shaped into an elemental to speak using any languages the character knows.
For fun, I assume that they speak with an "accent" due to the different vocal apparatus, but if a human can learn to speak/pronounce Ignan, a druid taking the form of a fire elemental can speak Common.
Polymorphing does not teach you languages (though note you can communicate with animals of your type - I don't think that applies to elementals, but if it does it still isn't the same thing as granting a language.).
if party equips you with magic items after you wildshape, do they meld back in when end whild shape or form on your now normal self/
OR would they stay melded in and reappear if you became that same wild shape form again???????????
I believe there's some debate over this, since it isn't really specified in the rules whether items can merge in both directions (natural <-> polymorphed). The biggest reason for items not to merge into your natural form is that you could wild shape / polymorph into something really big, pick up a load of gear, and essentially become a bag of holding. Or smuggle even large items with perfect security.
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Baleful Polymorph would only cancel out your Wild Shape if you fail your Will save after your Fortitude save because "the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities..." and Wild Shape is a Supernatural ability. If you make your Will save, you can change your shape back as a standard action, assuming you haven't used up your Wild Shape for the day.
As for the party equipping you with items in Wild Shape, polymorph rules state that "If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size."
And yes, Druids make for perfect smugglers because you can take something, equip it and Wild Shape into something inconspicuous and run away. No one pays much attention to a cat, a rat, or a bird.
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Baleful Polymorph would only cancel out your Wild Shape if you fail your Will save after your Fortitude save because "the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities..." and Wild Shape is a Supernatural ability. If you make your Will save, you can change your shape back as a standard action, assuming you haven't used up your Wild Shape for the day.
No, you can't. While you don't lose the Wild Shape ability, you can't use it. Baleful Polymorph has a specific rule that states that you cannot use any polymorph effects while Baleful Polymorphed, unless you have the (shapeshifter) subtype, which most druids don't. Keeping your Wild Shape ability in Baleful Polymorph is about
As for the party equipping you with items in Wild Shape, polymorph rules state that "If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size."
When you return to your natural form, you're not using a polymorph effect, you're dismissing one, so that doesn't necessarily apply.
Or are you saying that your armour would resize into barding, so your friends wouldn't need to equip you? Doesn't work because all gear does explicitly meld into an animal form, even if the animal could wear that (resized) gear.
Or are you saying that if you're wearing barding as an elephant, when you dismiss wild shape and take on humanoid form it resizes into humanoid armour (and then melds into the next wild shape you enter, being forever lost as barding)? That seems slightly more tenable by RAW but might be awkward in play - especially if you were wearing armour in humanoid form already.
And yes, Druids make for perfect smugglers because you can take something, equip it and Wild Shape into something inconspicuous and run away. No one pays much attention to a cat, a rat, or a bird.
But should they be able to smuggle a life-size, 200lb statue by turning into an elephant, strapping it to their back, and then turning back into a humanoid and walking into a secure building (and through an antimagic field, which would foil a druid smuggling items melded into an animal form)?
AFAIK, even gear melded into your body still has it's full weight.
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I find that unlikely, gear melds into your new form according to subschool description.
Furthermore since it is possible to turn from a 200 person with 150 pounds of gear into a dimunitive bat, I would assume you way as much as a bat and not a bat plus 150 pounds of gear. Though the possiblility of high density bats landing on bad guys and ripping through there arms could be quite amusing
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But should they be able to smuggle a life-size, 200lb statue by turning into an elephant, strapping it to their back, and then turning back into a humanoid and walking into a secure building
Rules about equipping an item are pretty clear (slots and all). Just holding it (unless it's a weapon/wand) or strapping it to your back does not count as equipping an item. If you want to smuggle a magical belt, you have to wear it on your belt slot.
Now, rules say that "all of your gear melds into your body", but it's not clearly defined what constitutes as gear. Does your backpack count as gear? Merriam-Webster says that gear/equipment is "the set of articles or physical resources serving to equip a person or thing", so I'd say that only what you have on your body slots (14 of them, I think) counts as gear.
Anything worn or carried on your person would count as gear and merge with you.
However, turning 'back into a humanoid' would be reverting from Elephant to normal form and thus equipment does not merge since you are no longer polymorphed.
For those *few* polymorph effects that allow you to change forms while already polymorphed it does create an interesting problem but just for sanity I would limit what is merged to what you are carrying when your original form became polymorphed.
As a sidenote, with a bag of holding the life size 200lb statue is not a big deal. Polymorph into something to sneak in, the bag of holding merges with your form.
- Gauss
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Now, rules say that "all of your gear melds into your body", but it's not clearly defined what constitutes as gear. Does your backpack count as gear? Merriam-Webster says that gear/equipment is "the set of articles or physical resources serving to equip a person or thing", so I'd say that only what you have on your body slots (14 of them, I think) counts as gear.
A backpack had better count as gear. Otherwise most druids would lose their rations, potions, scrolls, etc every time they wild shaped without someone to pick up their pack after them.
AFAIK, even gear melded into your body still has it's full weight.
Furthermore since it is possible to turn from a 200 person with 150 pounds of gear into a dimunitive bat, I would assume you way as much as a bat and not a bat plus 150 pounds of gear. Though the possiblility of high density bats landing on bad guys and ripping through there arms could be quite amusing
I think Quandary is talking about encumbrance, but that has its own set of problems. A druid with Str 10, carrying a light load of 30lbs of gear, will be unable to even stagger about when wild shaped into a Dimunuitive bipedal creature (max heavy load = 15lbs). Now, a druid needs Str more in PF than 3E because of the changes to Wild Shape, but that's supposed to be because you need decent physical stats to participate in combat, not because you need to have above average strength to wear leather armour (15lbs), turn into a songbird, and walk.
As a sidenote, with a bag of holding the life size 200lb statue is not a big deal. Polymorph into something to sneak in, the bag of holding merges with your form.
Yes, but that does require you to buy a bag of holding and you lose your sneaky shape if you walk through an antimagic field. Not quite the same thing as walking into an area in your underwear, with no active magic, with an arsenal potentially stored in your other skins. It also gets complicated if you can smuggle items in multiple wild shape forms, and devalues Wild Armour if you can just equip magic barding on your favourite combat shape and then have it instantly available when you change.
I agree with your "only gear carried by your original shape merges" policy.
Weirdo, if you are wild shaped and walk through an antimagic field you lose the wild shape. :) Ie: It is the same in either case.
- Gauss
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You misunderstand the scenario I'm describing:
1) You turn into an animal.
2) You equip an item, possibly a very large one.
3) You dismiss Wild Shape, returning to your natural form. At this point you are not under any supernatural effect and thus nothing is suppressed if you walk through an antimagic field.
4) If items equipped in Wild Shape are allowed to merge into your natural form, you are now "carrying" that item completely weightless and without any active magical effect (since you are not currently in Wild Shape).
If you're only talking about items in Wild Shape merging into a second shape taken it's a little less weird but you still get the issue of being able to wild shape into pre-equipped barding, and bypass a bag of holding for carrying large amounts of gear (without having to remain in your beast of burden shape).
I guess I did misunderstand and may still be misunderstanding. Are you advocating that you can carry items merged with your non-polymorphed form because you equipped them while polymorphed?
If so, when you come out of a polymorph effect you cannot have any item merged with your form. There is nothing in the rules that would allow that to happen.
Merged equipment only works in one direction....when you polymorph.
An argument may be made that polymorphing from one polymorphed form to a second polymorphed form (usually not possible but there are exceptions) would allow you to stack merged items but this is where a GM should just say no.
- Gauss
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I guess I did misunderstand and may still be misunderstanding. Are you advocating that you can carry items merged with your non-polymorphed form because you equipped them while polymorphed?
No, I'm saying that you can't do that and trying to point out the problematic consequences that would occur if you could. Like a 4th level druid becoming not just a good smuggler, but an infallible one, or Wild Armour becoming almost irrelevant.
So we agree.
Ahhh ok. :)
- Gauss