Hey guys,
Demonologist with a homebrew I'll probably never get to playtest.
Ehh, its for the community, and I've wanted to make a successful version of this class for a while.
I'm completely open to suggestions, comments, praise, inquiries, and the such.
Basically, balance and and make it more interesting.
Please $ Thank you.
Here's a url.
Go nuts and thanks.
EDIT: this is whack yo, it's not showing up, claiming its missing. Any help here? Your reward is this class. Tee-hee.
EDIT: FIXED
it says it doesn't exist...
It's been fix-ed.
I dont understand Jotungrip for this class. For the Titan Mauler, it makes sense because they're all about fighting large creatures and using large weapons. I don't see any reason why this class would have that ability.
Also, this feels like a completely different class from Paladin, not an archetype. He doesn't sound like his alignment limits him in any way, which is one of the defining features of paladins and antipaladins. Seems more like an Inquisitor to me.
So this class is heavily inspired by the Black Knight from Fire Emblem.
Jotungrip is some flavor as: he holds a two handed sword in one hand and leaves the other hand open to enhance is fighting.
This is a variant of the Paladin. Like how the Ninja (Rogue), Samurai (Cavalier), and Antipaladin (Paladin) are.
EDIT: the alignment issue has been fixed. Either Neutral good or chaotic good.
The Jotungrip is cool, yeah, but every other class except the Titan Mauler Barbarian would just have a smaller sword in this case, or take proficiency in the bastard sword. His ablities, except for this, have nothing to do with having freak strength or carrying large weapons. Thematically it doesn't fit.
Here's the issue with NG and CG for a paladin, though. It is much harder to morally restrict someone who is Chaotic Good and define when an action they take is breaking their alignment, since as aspect of their alignment involves floating a line between breaking and following the rules. Chaotic Evil works for the antipaladin because it's the polar opposite, but all the alignment in between have grey areas.
So basically, you just wanted something more powerful than the base class?
Very interesting. Going to leave a dot here.
@AtomicGamer, my goal for it to be balanced. I can see it isn't but that's partially why I wanted help from the community.
Ultimately, I kinda wish someone would play test it.
Also, I don't see how its so unbalanced. Instead of Smite Evil and Lay on hands, he gets a mixture of the two in Black Hand. All of the Shades of Black are one round abilities, so they can't be that broken. Some specifics on how it's unbalanced would be nice.
@Big Lemon, I see where you're coming from, but the class is, to the paladin, the "under-the-table" justice. Rules broken for the cause are insignificant. Lawful good works because the paladin is the officer of justice, so you could call the Black Knight a vigilante.
Thanks!
@AtomicGamer, my goal for it to be balanced. I can see it isn't but that's partially why I wanted help from the community.
Ultimately, I kinda wish someone would play test it.
Also, I don't see how its so unbalanced. Instead of Smite Evil and Lay on hands, he gets a mixture of the two in Black Hand. All of the Shades of Black are one round abilities, so they can't be that broken. Some specifics on how it's unbalanced would be nice.
@Big Lemon, I see where you're coming from, but the class is, to the paladin, the "under-the-table" justice. Rules broken for the cause are insignificant. Lawful good works because the paladin is the officer of justice, so you could call the Black Knight a vigilante.
Thanks!
But what you just described is exactly what the Inquisitor base class is.
"Grim and determined, the inquisitor roots out enemies of the faith, using trickery and guile when righteousness and purity is not enough. Although inquisitors are dedicated to a deity, they are above many of the normal rules and conventions of the church. They answer to their deity and their own sense of justice alone, and are willing to take extreme measures to meet their goals."
If a class archetype sounds more like an entirely different class than the one it is allegedly an archetype of, something is wrong.
I think the gameplay mechanics of this class are pretty cool, I just don't see it as a variant of Paladin in any way except they're both knight sort of figures.
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I agree that this doesn't sound like a "variant paladin" any more than a cavalier or inquisitor is a "variant paladin." It could play some similar roles and in some ways has a similar flavour, but the class abilities are different enough that this looks like its own class. As an example, a "Antipaladin" is considered a variant paladin in that it is for most purposes a clear opposite of the paladin. Ninja and Samurai are variant Rogues and Cavaliers that stick fairly closely to the main thrust of those classes with one or two notable thematic changes (for example, Samurai get abilities based on honour and resolve rather than mounted charge enhancements).
The change in moral focus is a side issue (though Big Lemon's right that an Inquisitor fits that vigilante role just fine). The mechanics are just too different for this to be anything but a second class.
Second, what strikes me is that this class does not have a consistent and clear focus to its abilities. The introduction makes it sound as though this is a Smite Knight. It hits evil, it hits it hard and fast and doesn't mess around with allies or with that namby-pamby "healing" stuff. Ok, sounds good. And then it doesn't get Smite Evil. And Jotungrip looks like an attempt to increase damage, but doesn't make much sense. And there's some sort of shadow magic going on with the armour and the engulfing darkness but it doesn't really seem to fit. And it forms a bond with a school of magic? Any school? So you could get those cure spells after all, or divination? What does that have to do with putting the evil down? And what's with the summoning animals? There are several individually good ideas, but together it's a bit of a mess.
Mkay,
@Wierdo, I that was an idea (about the schools of magic), but I could have sworn I killed that and replaced it with a once per day spell.
@Everyone, I guess you're right. It doesn't really do what the paladin does, and the inquisitor fills its role thematically, however It has med BAB and spells. The focus of the Black Knight was to have a very specific fighting style along with a little mystery in its own powers. You could say that its a melee-tank inquisitor, since it's as beefy as a fighter/paladin.
The image of the Black Knight comes out like this:
The heavily armored black clad knight with a huge sword in one hand, only swings with one hand, but right before he does, he uses his other hand to enhance his combat ability for that one swing(either pure damage or some misc ability).
Jotungrip is there so his image of a big sword in one hand doesnt end up being a bastard sword. I want it to be a little off-putting when people see that Knight's sword. Like "everyone has to use two hands to swing that properly, you must be really badass". or something along those lines. Its a bit of flavor I'd like him to have.
Asside from thematics, I was wondering, is this balanced?
on a purely theoretical level, i really do like the the black hand of justice as a nerfed but wide range substitute for smite. i almost wonder if jotungrip could be switched for a "mighty weapon" in which you designate a two handed weapon for the ability. maybe over time the penalty decreases for using it as well.
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i think that ravaging beast might be a bit strong, especially if you can designate where the beasts rise. i can just see a flat footed trip fest with a pack of celestial wolves.
edit: got an idea for shade
absorb nearby light spell for bonus on damage equal to level of spell
give it the name engulfing darkness.
change engulfing darkness to dark dominion.
I still feel like Jotungrip doesn't Fit. I mean, the name alone suggests it's for a character that fights giants. You'll need to come up with another way of getting that huge sword in one hand. Maybe if he hd some sort of shadow point, he could hold the thing in one hand as long as he had 1 shadow point left.
I still feel like Jotungrip doesn't Fit. I mean, the name alone suggests it's for a character that fights giants. You'll need to come up with another way of getting that huge sword in one hand. Maybe if he hd some sort of shadow point, he could hold the thing in one hand as long as he had 1 shadow point left.
hence my "mighty weapon" idea, limiting to one type of weapon. maybe black hand could be dependent on that weapon as well. making him heavily dependent on gear is absolutely a fair tradeoff for the alignment system to me.
your eldritch bond is technically spell-like abilities right? felt it needed to be clarified.
@+5 Toaster and Big Lemon,
What if I made the Jotungrip into a "Shadow Weapon" working like the armor in every way. (it would come with a sheathe).
Then, if that weapon is 2-handed, he can wield it with one and take a minus 2 penalty, and at every 4 levels that penalty is reduced by 1 (-0 at 8)
EDIT: Hey +5 Toaster, I'll assimilate the shade idea when I next edit the class. Probably tonight.
@+5 Toaster and Big Lemon,
What if I made the Jotungrip into a "Shadow Weapon" working like the armor in every way. (it would come with a sheathe).
Then, if that weapon is 2-handed, he can wield it with one and take a minus 2 penalty, and at every 4 levels that penalty is reduced by 1 (-0 at 8)
EDIT: Hey +5 Toaster, I'll assimilate the shade idea when I next edit the class. Probably tonight.
saw it, felt the love, nice.
how about...
Grasping Darkness: when used prevents the enemy from moving more than half their land speed for 1 round.
Save or no save?
Save or no save?
probably doesn't need it since you have to burn your move action to do it, so no spamming it.
honestly i think there should be some negative energy resistance incorporated somewhere.
Hey +5 Toaster, you got some good ideas. Lemme add you to the doc so you can edit it without going through me. Cause I only check paizo once a day if at all.
Also, just so you know, its all going to get one big nerfing in the end to make it fair. but for now, were going to worry about conceptual stuff.
woo!! ill try my best.
So i guess i can edit it too now. i added a shade and downgraded invulnerable guard to prevent Dark Champion OP shenanigans. any thoughts people?
well demon it's your baby do you like what i did, or was it too much?
it's a whole new animal now, but what's vital strike, the feat or something else?
So i assumed feats and put the language in the Doc.
a couple more shades and i think this might be darn close to a finished product.
ok some editing and a few last shades and i think this is ready for the public scrutiny. keep in mind it is now it's own independent base class. so PEACH with impunity. thank you
RISE BLACK KNIGHT, RISE!
Damnit. I was expecting at least one "It's just a flesh wound!" joke in this thread.
thats an actual ability i put on it for that reason.;)