So I'm updating a race I made a long time ago, the thing is it had a flaw that doubled falling damage due to their body mass and gave them a -4 racial penalty to Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Stealth, Ride checks, and a -8 racial penalty to Swim checks. My question is how many points should that be worth?
That are quite a lot of drawbacks. There are 5 skills with big penalties.
For positive skill modifiers you pay 2 RP for a +2 Bonus.
If we would apply that system to those skills in reverse it would result in 24 RP. That sounds way too much.
I'd at least half the penalties (-2 and -4 respectively). Then it would be 12 RP. And finally I'd reduce that bonus to 8 RP (as disadvantages usually bring less RP than a similar large advantage costs, due to the possibility of min/maxing around the flaws. For example unless you make a build focused on Riding, the penalty there will hardly ever come into play.)
For the falling damage, I had a similar flaw for a character too. Just we simply upgraded the die size for falling damage (taking 1d8 damage for every 10 feet fallen). I got 1 free feat for it (which would be worth 4 RP).
Double damage seems kinda harsh, but should be worth 8-12 RP.
However I would try not to pile up too many flaws. A race does not need tons of abilities and disadvantages to be unique. Less is more :)
I am not sure reverse engineering it is the way to go. Even 8 RP is a huge difference (if you look at what benefits it could buy). As Karuth mentions, the class would be used by characters who isn't expecting to depend on these skills, so the drawback is limited. I can't really see it above 4 RP (even that is high given that having -4 and -2 on two ability scores, is only -3 RP).
I would suggest an alternative approach. Instead of a penalty to those skills, let the race have a racial Armor Check Penalty that doesn't with other ACP.
This way you get the effect of them being heavy and slow (as a character wearing heavy armor), but it doesn't matter much for someone wearing armor (since they can only be hampered to a certain degree). I might be harsh, but then I'd set it to -1 or -2 RP.
I'm not sure how all these skill penalties are playing into their body mass.
It sounds like their body mass is really dense. If they were really dense, I don't see that affecting fall damage.Realistically speaking, a character with a really dense body would mean really dense muscles, strong and hard to injure; the extra damage would be dealt to whatever they landed on, not them. Furthermore, all these penalties sound more like a human that just abruptly became very heavy due to a spell or increased gravity, and doesn't have the muscles strength to compensate. But an entire race, developing over hundreds of thousands of years? It doesn't make any sense.
Having a penalty to Ride an Swim makes perfect sense, since it depends on creatures and environments and not on the character's ability to hold his own weight, but the others don't make much sense to me.
It might not make sense and it might not be realistic, but neither is magic and dragons....so we're even. It also didn't make sense in Eberron that a warforged with adamantine body have a penalty to balance, since they were built that way. Hahaha, sorry I'm in a joking mood today.
But they're beings of living rock, basically ancient stone golems housing the spirits of earth. My reasoning for the penalties and the increased falling damage is that they have a low center gravity and they're quite bulky so it is harder for them to move like the other races when it comes to flexibility.
It might not make sense and it might not be realistic, but neither is magic and dragons....so we're even. It also didn't make sense in Eberron that a warforged with adamantine body have a penalty to balance, since they were built that way. Hahaha, sorry I'm in a joking mood today.
But they're beings of living rock, basically ancient stone golems housing the spirits of earth. My reasoning for the penalties and the increased falling damage is that they have a low center gravity and they're quite bulky so it is harder for them to move like the other races when it comes to flexibility.
Magic and dragons make sense in a world where magic and dragons exist. Dragons are just big, smart dinosaurs. Magic may SEEM to contradict physics, but it has rules and still follows the universal rules of cause and effect: magical energy goes in, magical effect comes out. We don't understand how it gets there, but then we don't yet understand in the real world how dark matter exists. Let the wizards/scientists figure it out.
How they were built can definitely affect their ability to balance, it's a matter of how quickly they, with metal bodies, can moves their arms, legs, and other body parts to counter their weight when balancing, for example when moving across a tightrope. Their slow, metal bodies aren't able to react as quickly and are thus bad at balancing, just like real world robots are. It is completely in line with objects.
Something being heavy doesn't make it fall at a faster rate and wouldn't cause it to take more damage than any other object when it fell. That drawback does not make logical sense.
There are ways to suggest bulkiness in racial traits that don't contradict physical laws.
Also, at the risk of spamming this post, you never said anything about the race being made out of stone and having poor flexibility. Now the Escape Artist penalty makes sense, but couldn't that also be expressed with just a -2/-4 to Dexterity?
Rocks have less give to them. Take a rock and chuck it against a brick wall and then take your friend and shove him real hard into the same wall.
I guarantee you the rock will be a lot less there than your friend will be.
More fall damage seems reasonable, as does Swim/Ride/Acrobatics penalties.
Personally think something made of rock should A.) Have a bonus to stealth anywhere made of stone and B.) Be able to use Str in place of Dex for Escape Artist instead of taking penalties to those two, but that's just my 2 cents.
Rocks have less give to them. Take a rock and chuck it against a brick wall and then take your friend and shove him real hard into the same wall.
I guarantee you the rock will be a lot less there than your friend will be.
More fall damage seems reasonable, as does Swim/Ride/Acrobatics penalties.
Personally think something made of rock should A.) Have a bonus to stealth anywhere made of stone and B.) Be able to use Str in place of Dex for Escape Artist instead of taking penalties to those two, but that's just my 2 cents.
That explanation makes more sense than what I was given. However, if these guys really have the same amount of give as rock, and we're going the realistic route with that, wouldn't striking them with any object given the same amount of force also deal extra damage to them? Also, how will healing be handled in that case, if these guys are essentially constructs?
Don't Earth elementals repair themselves over time? Not quickly enough to be useful in battle, but to the extent that they're not constantly a battered mess?
And maybe spells that repair objects would work as healing spells for it.
As for the weapons, that seems more a balance oversight than anything. Giving him weakness to Blunt weapons would have to be balanced by something.
Though I suppose it couls just have Dr 5/Blunt or something as a race feature.
This race is kinda overly complicated TBQH.
Thank you for the feedback, it really helps. And yeah I should have mentioned them being made of rock and being bulky. I was really tired when I made this thread.
Anyway, I think I know what I'm going to do for this race. I've decided to make them crystal and give them vulnerability to sonic and force attacks.
That seems fair. Players aren't going to be encountering much sonic or force damage early in the game so it won't cripple them right off the bat. Having vulnerability to two damage types might be too much, in which case I would say jsut have weakness to sonic, but force isn't that big a deal.
Good point about force, so I'll just make it vulnerability to sonic attacks. I still feel that a penalty to ride and swim checks should be added as well. But, that's just me.
I would like to make it that they could be able to form weapons out of their own body, but i think I will do that through feats. Again thanks for the feedback, it has really helped.
Chiseled Body [Feat]
By chiseling and honing the Stoneguy's own body, his own body becomes a deadly weapon.
Requirements: Stoneguyrace, Craft (weapons) 1 rank
Benefit: The Stoneguy gains you choice of either a slam, gore, or slash natural attack that deals 1d6 damage. This is a primary natural attack.
Chiseled Body [Feat]
By chiseling and honing the Stoneguy's own body, his own body becomes a deadly weapon.
Requirements: Stoneguyrace, Craft (weapons) 1 rank
Benefit: The Stoneguy gains you choice of either a slam, gore, or slash natural attack that deals 1d6 damage. This is a primary natural attack.
I like that, but I was thinking more like being able to form their hand into a sword for a certain amount of rounds. And later they can fire crystal shards from their arms. But I do like what you have.
Actually I take that back, I'm going with your feat, but I'm limiting it to a number of rounds equal to their Con modifier.
In case you have not decided on any particular back story as to how they are now crystalline, may I suggest you don't completely discard the originals (if you planed to), instead they "evolved" from their that earth form into this new crystalline form, which as it grows in power it can grow crystalline weapons, eventually even throw them (racial feats).
You can write an earthen form (original) that can grow crystalline weapons (alternate racial feature) which is a halfway form between the two, still evolving. As such what it grows can technically be more fluid, since it is still in a state of change. This alternate can become fully crystalline through a higher level racial feature written in, or as a set of racial feats.
Either at the higher end of the power spectrum and/or to the more "mystical" inclined of these races, you can grant them light based powers of some sort; per day spells, constant spell effect (light perhaps), sonic effects (just because they are vulnerable, does not mean they cannot create it as well), etc.
You can even project this into the crystalline races eventual de-evolution, as they start gaining earthen powers instead as some choose to go back to their "roots".
Sorry, codeine makes my imagination run off the chart =)
Yes to the sonic vulnerability, and the penalty to ride and swim. pluses to con, maybe str, negs to dex, maybe cha. Potentially give them natural armor bonus, DR (1/4 level)/bludgeoning, Unique light/prism based language.
Unique light/prism based language.
Maybe this race cannot speak at all, and communicate with eachother via a morse-esque pattern of quick flashes of light. They can understand other languages, but cannot speak them without the aid of magic. Other races would require a mirror or some light source to be able to speak their language.
I haven't forgot this thread, I'm working on the race's background. I like the idea of a light based language. So I took that into account, but made it a combination of hums and light based morse code. I also have it that they can speak Terran and common. Terran is very easy to communicate vocally, but common is harder for them so it sounds almost musical because they don't have actual vocal cords. It's like hitting a tuning fork to the highs and lows of the words mixed with auto tune.
Ok, here is what I have for the rock race so far:
( Singular: roka)
Physical Description: Rokas are extremely bulky, roughly 7ft, tall beings made of crystalized rock that clock in at about 800 pounds. Their body is made entirely of rock-hard, mutable, crystal with patches of stone chitin that protect vital spots (chest, back, shoulders, abdomen, and shins. In youth, a roka’s body, which may be any color from white as a diamond to black as an onyx and any color in between, is light and almost entirely transparent. As they age, their crystalline skin darkens and becomes more opaque. Hair is unheard of and their eyes resemble bright almost luminescent yellow gemstones. Most rokas have long arms that reach their knees, or possibly even lower. Unlike humans, rokas lack external hearing organs, their ears are simply just holes on the side of their heads. There is little to no signs of males or females, except through personality. Despite the oddities of their appearance, roka are actually living and sentient, and not mindless constructs or elementals. As living creatures they do age, but after adulthood aging has no effect.
Language: The language of the roka is spoken by hums like a tuning fork being struck in a manner like morse code. Because rokas don’t have actual vocal cords, but must vibrate crystals in their throat, they aren’t able to speak other languages. Those who wish to communicate with the rokas in their native language must do so magically or with a rokaian communicator. Due to how they communicate with one another, many find employment as oratory musicians.
+2 Strength, +2 Intelligence, –4 Dexterity: Roka are both strong and exceptionally intelligent, but lack gracefulness due to their build. (-1RP)
Medium: Roka are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.(0RP)
Slow and Steady: Roka have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance. (-1RP)
Half-Construct: Roka’s are humanoids with the half-construct type giving them these traits:
- Half-constructs gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease, mind-affecting effects, poison, and effects that cause either exhaustion or fatigue.
- Half-constructs cannot be raised or resurrected.
- Half-constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of these activities. This means that a half-construct can drink potions to benefit from their effects and can sleep in order to regain spells, but neither of these activities is required for the construct to survive or stay in good health.(7RP)
Darkvision: Roka can see in the dark up to 60 feet. (2RP)
Crystalline Form: Rokas have reflective, crystalline skin that grants them a +2 racial bonus to AC against rays. Once per day, they can deflect a single ray attack targeted at them as if they were using the Deflect Arrows feat. They also receive DR 5/Bludgeoning. (4RP)
Dense Body: Because of their very low size-to-weight ratio, rokas have a -4 racial penalty to Ride and Swim checks. (-2RP)
Industrial: Rokas are quite an industrialist people and are known for their metal and stone working, specially involving crystal work. They gain a +2 racial bonus on all Craft or Profession checks to create objects from metal or stone. (1RP)
Sonic Vulnerability: Because of the roka’s physical makeup, they’re prone to sonic vibrations. High frequency noises cause them to crack, or if it is strong enough, if could shatter them completely. They have a –4 penalty on saves against spells, effects, and attacks with the sonic descriptor. (-2RP)
Languages: Rokas begin play speaking and writing Rokaian, and understanding and writing common. Rokas with high Intelligence scores can understand and write from the following: Dwarven, Giant, Gimling, Orc, Terran, and Undercommon. (0RP)
I haven't fully finished their origin yet, I'm still tweaking parts of it. But essentially they're from another world where they lived in a very technologically advanced society. Problems on their home world forced them to leave and their ship malfunctioned, having them crash land in my setting and having to rebuild their society. They're also one of the key races that lead to the boom of technology in the world.
Dot.
And not gonna lie reason reading the original post made me think of Gorons(spelling?) from Legend of Zelda.
Dot.
And not gonna lie reason reading the original post made me think of Gorons(spelling?) from Legend of Zelda.
Actually the gorons and and Diamondhead from Ben 10 gave me the idea for this race. Eventually I'll be adding feats that allow the rokas to use their bodies as weapons.
Actually the gorons and and Diamondhead from Ben 10 gave me the idea for this race. Eventually I'll be adding feats that allow the rokas to use their bodies as weapons.Dot.
And not gonna lie reason reading the original post made me think of Gorons(spelling?) from Legend of Zelda.
Nice... So are they stone or crystal based?
They're essentially a combination of both crystal and rock.
Cool.
Hmm... seems like they should have Natural Armour somewhere in there. You have enough space for it.
Ha! I knew I was missing something, I do need to add natural armor. Thanks.
They are living constructs, so I'm using the half construct type as that. If you would have read the traits you would see the half construct type.
for +2 NA it is 3RP for +3 it is 5RP.
Anymore and you get a race that is slightly two powerful.
I think I'm going to make the natural armor a feat, like the feats for the warforged. Or I can give them a +1 and let them raise it through feats.
You are currently at 10RP. If you bring it up to a maximum of 15 you should be safe.
You might want to do the math again. It's not 10RP, it should be 8RP
I missed the first 2 negatives whoops. so you could easily give them Natural Armour.
Haha, it's all good. It's easily done. So yeah, I'll add Natural Armor then, allow them to increase it through feats.
On another note: If I make it that the alternative favored class thing for the fighter be to allow roka feats with combat feats, would it be ok? When I ask if it's ok, I'm asking if it makes sense or should I not do that? I also want to do that for the barbarian.
What do you mean?
The alternative racial favored class bonus, sorry I don't have my books with me. But it's a list of stuff that you can do every level for each class instead if getting extra skill points of HP.
The alternative racial favored class bonus, sorry I don't have my books with me. But it's a list of stuff that you can do every level for each class instead if getting extra skill points of HP.
I know that. What I meant was the Roka Feats as Combat feats and what not.
The alternative racial favored class bonus, sorry I don't have my books with me. But it's a list of stuff that you can do every level for each class instead if getting extra skill points of HP.I know that. What I meant was the Roka Feats as Combat feats and what not.
the race is called Rokas
the race is called RokasThe alternative racial favored class bonus, sorry I don't have my books with me. But it's a list of stuff that you can do every level for each class instead if getting extra skill points of HP.I know that. What I meant was the Roka Feats as Combat feats and what not.
Yeah I know that to. But Why would they need to have a Racial Favoured Class bonus for that.
Just make the Feat (Roka, Combat) and there you go.
the race is called RokasThe alternative racial favored class bonus, sorry I don't have my books with me. But it's a list of stuff that you can do every level for each class instead if getting extra skill points of HP.I know that. What I meant was the Roka Feats as Combat feats and what not.Yeah I know that to. But Why would they need to have a Racial Favoured Class bonus for that.
Just make the Feat (Roka, Combat) and there you go.
The racial feats aren't all combat feats. The only one that can really be a combat feat is where they would be able to use their body as a weapon, and maybe being able to upgrade their natural armor. I'm going to have more feats than just them two.
speaking of feats how about this
Your Crystalline form has adapted to storing concentrated light
Prerequisites
Roka
Benefit
when ever you are exposed to a light based spell (such as daylight), you can choose to absorb the spell into your form, negating any area effects it may have. If you have a spell stored this way you may expel it to generate light (as the spell daylight) as a move action. This a supernatural effect.
probably needs some tweaking but you get the idea.
I am just saying that it is possible for that.
I might make their racial Favoured Class say +1/4 or +1/2 NA or such.