So if I'm a cross like this and I choose serpent fang at 1, draconic resistance at 3, snakeskin at 9, draconic claws at 15 and scaled soul at 20...
When I hit Dragon disciple at 6, blood line powers keep accruing right ?from blood of dragons class feature?
I hit DD3 at Character lvl 8 and gain a breath weapon independent of my normal bloodline powers because I select snakeskin at character level 9...same for DD 9 and wings...I take claws at 15 instead of wings?
This work right? I'm looking at a nice +10 natural armor bonus and wicked con poison
Also, the wording of the Blood of Dragons ability makes it sound like both bloodlines go up if you're crossblooded.
A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline.Although it's implied, it's not specified that it is the draconic bloodline, so both your serpentine bloodline and draconic bloodline could increase from this ability.
Well, except that "gained from his bloodline" is in the singular tense.
Still, you can dip back into Crossblooded Sorceror to gain a BL power via the Sorceror class, which would be open to normal Crossblooded selections. I don't think you can get the Capstone BL power from the non-Draconic BL, but it should still be workable.
Maybe technically, but it's pretty obvious that the intent is otherwise.
Note that if you DON'T get draconic claws, then the DD enhancements to that (elemental dmg, bite) can't work.
I think you can still use a cross-blooded sorceror with DD, but I would respect the intent with DD while doing that.
Certainly, be ware that DD is ripe for errata to clarify this interaction.
Mostly I'm not caring about intent...I like building a character concept using the rules. So I'm not necessarily building a "dragon" disciple as much as I'm building a reptilian scion.
Sorcerous abilities, crazy con poison, stat boosts, and natural armor, could base it on nagaji or vishkanya for more poison goodness.
I'd even try to get my dm to allow my character to take the nagaji spit venom feat and the vishkanya sleep venom. I'm not sure which race I'd like yet.
|
One thing to remember is that the natural armor from Draconic resistances and snakeskin do not stack.
Snakeskin (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +1 bonus to natural armor, a +2 racial bonus on saves against poison, and a +2 bonus on Escape Artist checks. At 13th level and 17th level, these bonuses increase by +1.
Dragon Resistances (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain resist 5 against your energy type and a +1 natural armor bonus. At 9th level, your energy resistance increases to 10 and natural armor bonus increases to +2. At 15th level, your natural armor bonus increases to +4.
This is due to the fact that they give you a natural armor, they are not increasing your existing natural armor, like DD does.
Natural Armor Increase (Ex)
As his skin thickens, a dragon disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor's physical aspect. At 1st, 4th, and 7th level, a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character's existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table: Dragon Disciple. These armor bonuses stack.
The same would apply if you had a race that started with natural armor, you take the highest natural armor you have, not all of them added together unless it specially says so. Also the reason an amulet of natural armor would stack with everything above is because it is an enhancement bonus.
True, I don't think they were thinking of crossblooded when they wrote this.
Well, crossblooded wasn't around when the CRB was finalized.
Also (and due to Serpentine BL not being existant), the PrC was built with only draconic BL in mind and it's stated choosing this BL prior or when taking up Sorc levels later is required.
Therefore, the RAW cannot be applied here, since the book and this PrC has not caught up with reality (new material being released).
Ruyan.
I'd say the way it is worded draconic resistances, "you gain a +1natural armor bonus" so that is your base.
The way snakeskin is worded, "gain a +1 bonus to NA"
Untyped...bonus to natural armor
And then DD increases your base NA.
So yes if I chose a race like nagaji with a base NA, yes it would be superceded by draconic resistance's base NA.
|
One thing to remember is that the natural armor from Draconic resistances and snakeskin do not stack.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
This is due to the fact that they give you a natural armor, they are not increasing your existing natural armor, like DD does.
** spoiler omitted **
The same would apply if you had a race that started with natural armor, you take the highest natural armor you have, not all of them added together unless it specially says so. Also the reason an amulet of natural armor would stack with everything above is because it is an enhancement bonus.
Tormad, I once believed as you have. However, if you look closely at the wording for Serpent Skin and Draconic resistances, you'll see a telling difference between the two.
Draconic Resistances is worded in a way to give a base natural armor bonus, the type of natural armor that does not stack with other base natural armor bonuses.
Snake Skin gives an untyped bonus to natural armor, much like an Amulet of Natural Armor gives an enhancement bonus to natural armor. Given how an Amulet of Natural Armor enhances a character's existing natural armor, I believe Snake Skin behaves in much the same way, RAW.
Now, as to why each bloodline power would behave so differently, I couldn't say. Perhaps this wasn't intended, and needs an FAQ/errata?
But, as it stands, all three sources -- Snake Skin (+3 untyped bonus to natural armor, Draconic Resistances (+4 Natural Armor bonus to AC), and Natural Armor Increase(Ex) (+3 increase to existing Natural Armor) -- would stack, providing +10 Natural Armor bonus to AC.
Along with the holy trinity of Wondrous AC items, Ring of Protection, Bracers of Armor, and Amulet of Natural Armor, your total AC will probably put heavy armor martial classes to shame, with no max dex bonus, AC penalty, or ASF chance to boot. Fun times ahead as you once again prove that martial characters are trumped come late game.
EDIT: Any of the Serpentine powers, as people have already made mention in the thread earlier, increasing as you take levels in DD would be in contention, as there doesn't seem to be a clear answer, as far as I see it. Have you considered going a normal sorceror with Eldritch Heritage feats in Serpentine, instead? A bit feat hungry, sure, but it's a sure shot that way with no room for quibbling.
haha was actually gonna throw Abyssal Heritage in there for more claws and strength...
so a fiendish, draconic serpent
on the side i read the Naga Aspirant druid variant and i think it could be cool to reflavor DD as a Naga blood prestige class that does the same thing. Sorcerer casting is more appropriate than druid
|
|
I see. So since it is worded slightly different it does make sense by RAW that it increases. The question arises that since it is a bonus and not a base natural armor does that mean you get to keep the bonus when you poly say when using form of the dragon?
I am not sure on this one as I assume the DD class feature natural armor you get to keep but the base from the draconic blood line you don't.
|
|
I see. So since it is worded slightly different it does make sense by RAW that it increases. The question arises that since it is a bonus and not a base natural armor does that mean you get to keep the bonus when you poly say when using form of the dragon?
I am not sure on this one as I assume the DD class feature natural armor you get to keep but the base from the draconic blood line you don't.
Considering that the Serpent Skin, Draconic Resistances, and the Nat Armor Increase are passive, yet persistent class features that seem to be tied to your physiology and form, you may lose them.
However, abilities like draconic claws are actually used as an example as an exception to the rule, because your activating an ability that actively changes your present form.
So, it seems that as long you can activate the class feature/ability when after you polymorph, or the class feature/ability has nothing to do with your physiology, you can still benefit from it.
You can find this info on the fifth paragraph of the polymorph subschool section.