So if I get grappled while I am holding my longsword, do I take a -4 penalty if I attempt to break free from the grapple?
What about if I attempt to dominate the grapple?
And the grappled condition states you cannot take any action that requires two hands. If so, can you even hold a weapon while attempting to dominate a grapple?
I found nothing clarifying this under "Combat" or "grappled". I would prefer a reference to a source incase this comes up in game.
grapples only require 1 hand, so if you are trying to grapple or get the upper hand in a grapple to control it, you can hold a longsword as long as your other hand is free.
asthyril wrote: grapples only require 1 hand, so if you are trying to grapple or get the upper hand in a grapple to control it, you can hold a longsword as long as your other hand is free. But grappling with one hand imparts a -4 penalty. Does that apply if you are attempting to break from a grapple or dominate one(when you have been grappled)?
ah i didnt know about the 1 hand rule, i know grapple from the opposite end, trying to get out. i know spellcasters can cast spells with somatic components because they have at least 1 hand free. now i'm not sure about your question, and its too late for me to research lol.
Reverse the grapple: the rules are not "very clear".
PRD: "If You Are Grappled: If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can)..."
It seems that with the same CMB check (as a standard action) you can break the grapple OR reverse the grapple.
By "common sense", i exclude Escape Artist check for the reversing grapple.
The problem is that it's written too: "Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll."
So i think that if you don't want have a -4 penalty on CMB check for reverse the grapple, you need to have your two hands free.
but that may be just a penalty to START a grapple, not to CONTINUE it. after all, starting a grapple provokes an aoo, but continuing one does not.
Actually, the way it reads leads to 'as long as you are in control of a grapple' you take that penalty.
It doesn't state anything about the penalty only being on the 'initial' roll, a CMB roll is made every round to maintain that control of another creature. Every round you roll to grapple (initiate or maintain) you need to make the CMB roll, as it is another grapple 'attempt.'
That penalty stands as long as you are the one 'in charge' or to gain the upper hand (reverse the grapple) from the wording.
you are doing the exact same thing (grapple check) regardless of whether you choose to reverse it or escape it: "Alternately, if you succeed [on the same check, with same penalties/modifiers], you can become the grappler". so the -4 penalty should apply if it's relevant to you (humanoid, no 2 hands free).
i'm not really sure about cases when the grappled target doesn't threaten the grappler (e.g. when the grappler takes the -20 penalty, or doesn't need to like Krakens, to not count as grappled themself, and thus moves away from the target), if the intent of the rules is to always allow the grappled target to escape/reverse vs. their grappler opponent...???
the penalty doesn't apply to escape artist checks, if you want to do that instead.
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asthyril wrote: but that may be just a penalty to START a grapple, not to CONTINUE it. after all, starting a grapple provokes an aoo, but continuing one does not. the rules specify 'begin a grapple' in other cases where they want to make such a distinction. they don't here. it just says 'attempting to grapple a foe'. that means all grapple checks. if you have weapon focus: grapple, that will apply to all these grapple checks.
if you want to get technical, you can read the following line; " If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD" as meaning attempting to escape/break a grapple is not actually a grapple check (so no bonuses from imporoved grapple, weapon focus: grapple, etc), but is some unique, un-named combat maneuver of it's own that happens to be able to achieve the same thing that grapple does. likewise, the opponent's CMD would not receive grapple-specific bonuses, since you aren't actually grappling them.
technically, that line should have said 'making a grapple check' or 'grapple maneuver check', but i think it's clear that it is a grapple CMB being discussed there. hit FAQ for Errata if you want.
Quandary wrote: asthyril wrote: but that may be just a penalty to START a grapple, not to CONTINUE it. after all, starting a grapple provokes an aoo, but continuing one does not. the rules specify 'begin a grapple' in other cases where they want to make such a distinction. they don't here. it just says 'attempting to grapple a foe'. that means all grapple checks. if you have weapon focus: grapple, that will apply to all these grapple checks.
if you want to get technical, you can read the following line; " If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD" as meaning attempting to escape/break a grapple is not actually a grapple check (so no bonuses from imporoved grapple, weapon focus: grapple, etc), but is some unique, un-named combat maneuver of it's own that happens to be able to achieve the same thing that grapple does. likewise, the opponent's CMD would not receive grapple-specific bonuses, since you aren't actually grappling them.
technically, that line should have said 'making a grapple check' or 'grapple maneuver check', but i think it's clear that it is a grapple CMB being discussed there. hit FAQ for Errata if you want. This makes sense, but the rules aren't very clear. Nowhere does it say that breaking or dominating a grapple actually is a grapple attempt.
Defraeter wrote: Reverse the grapple: the rules are not "very clear".
PRD: "If You Are Grappled: If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can)..."
It seems that with the same CMB check (as a standard action) you can break the grapple OR reverse the grapple.
By "common sense", i exclude Escape Artist check for the reversing grapple.
The problem is that it's written too: "Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll."
So i think that if you don't want have a -4 penalty on CMB check for reverse the grapple, you need to have your two hands free.
Actually you can reverse a grapple with an Escape Artist check. It is shown on the chart in the Combat page on d20pfsrd.
Not sure if it matters (flow chart) as it isn't an official PFRPG/Paizo construct/image and the skill states that you are resticted to using escape artist in its description. The flow chart seems to be wrong with this particular rule.
'You can make an Escape Artist check in place of a combat maneuver check to escape a grapple or a pin.'
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