Hi all
I have a question on the Grapple rules
Specifically as to what happens if a monster/NPC is grappling a character and is then attacked by the characters associates.
Now part of me thinks that in 3.5 damaging a grappler gave them a negative to maintaining the grapple. I may be imagining this though.
However if this was the case nothing similar appears to exist in Pathfinder.
So is the interpretation that the monster can attempt to maintain at no penalty the next turn (and the grappled person has lower chance to break) even if others are hacking at them?
Is it solely up to the DM to play the opponents thought process (as to whether they would logically let go to fight the others or not)
The issue has come up a few times in games where the DM has kept grappling because the PC has very limited chance of escape (even when 2 other PCs are attacking the grappler)
Could I please get some clarification on the rules for this (and how others play it out)
Thanks
The penalty to a grappler being attacked is that the grappler normally is also considered to be grappled, which gives him some -4 to effective dexterity and thus (usually) -2 to effective AC.
|
Well, one thing to remember is even the grappler gains the grappled condition, dropping his AC and CMD by 2 (-4 DEX). The other players could very well try to trip the grappler (giving him the prone condition, which reduces stats), or they could gang up and try to break the other guy free (using aid another as per the grapple CMB's entry). They don't have to worry about AoO's either (unless its a fancy monster), so everybody can get right up next to it and have a ball using aid another.
|
Well, one thing to remember is even the grappler gains the grappled condition, dropping his AC and CMD by 2 (-4 DEX).
Also if the Grappler is pinning your ally the Grappler also loses his Dex bonus to AC and so if he had a Dex Bonus of +3 or more, he is even easier to hit! Plus you can sneak attack him!
So if you can, goad the monster into Pinning your ally - it might make the monster easier to hit, you can sneak attack him, and your ally will probably find it easier to get free (as CMD of the monster may be lower if its Dex bonus is +3 or better and your ally will no longer be suffering a -4 to Dex and thus won't have a -2 to Escape artist or CMB if they have Agile Manoeuvres feat)
|
|
I have a question too.
I remember an obscure rule about firing someone which is grappled.
You have the -4 penelty to shoot someone in a melee and this rule add "50% to shoot one of the two" so 50% to shoot the grappler and 50% to shoot its victim grappled.
A rule erased?????????
I liked it.
This was a footnote for Table 8–6: Armor Class Modifiers in D&D3.5 PHB (page 151): "3 Roll randomly to see which grappling combatant you strike. That defender loses any Dexterity bonus to AC."
This footnote is not in the 5th printing of Pathfinder (page 195) probably because in Pathfinder grappling characters do not share the same space.
|
|
and to pin someone doesn't give you anyway the same condition "pinned" of your victim!!!
the grappler is always under condition "grappled" and only its victim is under condition "pinned".
I am not sure where you got the impression I was saying if you pin someone you also get the pinned condition. I was referring to the following text on Pathfinder 5th Printing page 200:
Pin: You can give your opponent the pinned condition (see Appendix 2). Despite pinning your opponent, you still only have the grappled condition, but you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC.So yes, the grappler does still retain "just" the Grappled condition, but in addition he loses his Dex bonus to AC (and thus CMD as well) - so basically he is suffering a -4 Dex and loses Dex bonus to AC.
Its one of the extra complications Paizo introduced with Grappling that I do not like, but it is there.
|
|
Another thing which doesn't incite monster to grapple and push them to replace by tactics such as grab-constrict-release...
Another complication to suck the grapple rule and forbid the monster to use it...
Yep, considering the flak Grappling got in 3.5 for complexity I am surprised Paizo didn't do a lot more work making it less complicated. The single CMB/CMD mechanic makes combat manoeuvres in general less complicated, but looking at Grappling by itself, IMHO its just as complicated (just in different ways now) and in some instances unintuitive (its often easier to escape from being Pinned than being just Grappled).
I prefer 3.5's grappling rules personally.