This post is intended to generate discussion, and hopefully input from Paizo employees. Though it is the voicing of a concern, it is not intended as a complaint. Also, I'll say up front that I don't have a clever solution, I'm just looking to get opinions. If I'm all alone in this issue, I can accept that.
Also, I'm going to try to phrase the rest of this post very carefully, so forgive me if it comes off a little stilted. I don't want there to be an misunderstanding of what I'm getting at.
I am becoming concerned that removing posts isn't necessarily the right way to enforce all of the messageboard rules. Let me state right away that I'm not going to use the words "free speech" at any (other) point--I'm fully aware that we are on Paizo's turf and you guys have the right to make whatever rules you want, enforced however you want. And, in many cases, the current setup works just fine. For instance, the FAQ says we aren't allowed to "post any content that infringes and/or violates any patent, trademark, copyright, or other proprietary right of any third party; use profanity or any type of vulgar speech; make any bigoted, hateful or racially offensive statements; defame, abuse, stalk, harass or threaten others; advocate illegal activity or discuss illegal activities with the intent to commit them." That's easy to enforce. Stuff is either clearly in that realm or it isn't. And I don't have any objections to removing stuff that is.
The trouble is, in my opinion, the prime rule: "Don't be a jerk." That's not so straightforward. Yes, sometimes someone jumps up and says "ZOMG YOU ARE TEH DUMBZ" and clearly they're being a jerk. But sometimes, in a debate, people do respond to each other directly, and sometimes they're not as polite as they could be. Sometimes that's on purpose, and sometimes--especially in situations that, and I say this with love, tend to attract a socially-awkward demographic--it's accidental. Either way, I don't know if I think that just removing things is the right answer. Recently Mike flat out told two people who were being prickly at each other to knock it off, and they did--that seems a better idea, in my opinion.
The trouble gets bigger when all subsequent posts have to be deleted. I've had posts where Person A said something, Person B responded, Person A replied in a way that indicated they didn't understand Person B's response, and I stepped in to clarify. Because the original post got removed, all subsequent posts go too, including the clarification--and then nobody learns anything.
I've also had at least one post removed for reasons I still do not understand. I posted what I suspect was some very unpopular advice that advocated fudging a certain rule. I say "I suspect" because when I came back a few hours later, that post was gone and so was everything that followed, which was apparently quite a bit. I don't know if it was deleted because I advocated fudging the rule, or because I tried to be clever about how I phrased it (I stole the style from an old Dan Savage column), or just because people didn't like it. I don't even know how to avoid having that happen again.
Today, for instance, a thread was locked because it was "a parody thread." It was, sure. But nobody was being named, we were having fun, and there was some legitimate debate over the RAW/RAI schism. I don't even know if that thread actually violated a rule--nobody was accused of being a jerk in the note about it, and there's nothing about parodies in the rules, so I'm at a loss. Maybe it should have been moved to Gamer Talk or such, sure, but instead it was locked. So again, we don't learn anything, and there's no real way to follow up.
Now, I think we can state with some certainty that, especially on this forum, codifying a list of rulings about what's allowed and what isn't will just lead to endless debate. And I appreciate that, in the absence of a full-time moderator, you guys want to have flexibility in how you moderate. But I believe more transparency in these matters would be very helpful to your users who are actually interested in working within the rules. Of course, I have been wrong before.
I would like to hear thoughts on this from both sides of the situation, if possible.
PostMonster General
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If you have a question about a post removal you can always email webmaster@paizo.com and ask us about it. Sometimes we get a little behind in responding to email there but we try to keep up on it. In general we like to think of our moderators as gardeners rather than cops: we're pruning out unnecessary or unhealthy parts of the conversation in hopes that the rest can flourish. We really do not like removing posts and try to do it as little as possible. Also, post removal is a judgment call and there are times when I see removed posts that I wouldn't have removed, and I know I've removed posts that others might have let stand. We're not interested in having a big list of bright-line rules because, well, this is a community of gamers, and I think everybody here knows how gamers are about rules.
Parody threads are kind of a tricky case. We've had a history of them here, and what generally happens is one person creates a parody thread, then five or six other people create "funnier" parody threads, and the whole thing just snowballs into a bunch of mockery and grar and we end up locking them all because they're not actually making the boards more fun or friendly. The very nature of a parody thread is its backhanded, "sly" insults aimed at another poster in the community, and that kind of thing can get toxic really quickly if it's not pruned out.
If we're going to let a parody thread stand—and it's not often that we do, these days—that thread must be in off-topic or gamer talk or someplace like that. The Pathfinder RPG Rules Questions forum is for actual rules questions, the Advice forum is for actual advice, etc. Those forums are very active, and lots of people go there looking for help in playing the game. Letting those forums get clogged with in-jokes, parodies and other off-topic stuff makes them less useful to the community and it's something we are not interested in letting happen.
What flagging option should be used for trolling?
Would it be possible to send an automatic PM (or something) when a post is deleted, with the text of the post in it?
That would at least tell the poster that "this isn't okay", which might otherwise not be clear. I know of at least one post I've made that has been deleted, but where I have no idea why.
Plus the poster would perhaps not even be aware that their post has been deleted. Currently there is no way to know that one of your posts have been deleted unless you go into a thread, look at past posts, and discover that a post you remember having made is no longer there.
I would like to hear thoughts on this from both sides of the situation, if possible.
I think that there are more than two sides. Sometimes I will go down a thread flagging not only a troll, but also post after post that quote him. Only some of them reward him with flames; but even if they're stiffly polite, the trolling would persist in their quotes. So they all have to go.
Would it be possible to send an automatic PM (or something) when a post is deleted, with the text of the post in it?
That's a good idea. Maybe also include a list of the ways that it was flagged, and give the deleter a text box for a few words of explanation (e.g. "Don't quote trolls, flag and move on" or "I'd wash your mouth out with soap").