I'm having trouble figuring out what direction to go with my character. I feel like currently I have as much versatility as I can manage with the amount of turns I get.
3 person high power game, evil alignment.
I'm playing a high dex 26/charisma 20, 11 dawnflower dervish/ 1 unarmed fighter. Sub ten str, just now got enough Int to qualify for the combat expertise feats but I've not taken any of those yet.
Trying to play a the role of tank using the goblin roll with it, and crane style feats. Almost all of my actions are always getting used, between rolling, bardic performance, AOO etc. I've got haste blind,grease and blur as buff spells. Invis and cures for utility. (Didn't take much in the way of atk spells because I don't have super high charisma for resists and i'm usually in the thick of combat.
Feats include: Dervish Dance, Roll with it (goblin), dodge, mobility, IUS, Crane style, deflect arrows, Crane Wing, skill focus acrobatics, Discordant voice.
I'm open to dumping 1 or two more levels of bard because I only use the ability to cast a few spells and i've already given up my lvl 20 skill/don't care about the lvl 18/19 progression. But I would like to keep the caster progression up that far.
I don't know what to do with my feats going forward, Crane riposte is an option, Combat expertise opens up many feats but i've only got 4 left unless a dip provides some.
Prestige classes are practically non existent in this game and underpowered usually but maybe you know one i don't know about.
Strait pathfinder books allowed. Dawnflower was allowed as an exception but I don't expect DM will allow more from the PFS books that aren't in core.
Thanks in advance for any idea's. I'm very happy with this character and so far it's been allot of fun. I Could just take things like weapon focuses type feats for small bonus and that may be the optimized way to go but i'm hoping I missed a few fun and effective options.
I find it interesting that you're using Dervish Dance AND unarmed combat... admittedly it has me scratching my head. What's the thought there? The only thing I can think of first hand is that you're only using Dervish Dance's wording to cheese unarmed strikes with your other hand... or do you actually switch between using Dervish Dance with a scimitar AND using unarmed combat, depending on the situation? I have a few suggestions in mind, but would like to tackle this issue first. :)
I find it interesting that you're using Dervish Dance AND unarmed combat... admittedly it has me scratching my head. What's the thought there?
Crane Wing to help tanking, I assume. I would imagine he never actually hits anyone unarmed.
Anyway, to Odd Gospel, if you're looking for more versatility, have you considered an Eldritch Heritage? Arcane can get you a familiar and a few sorc/wiz spells on your list--seems pretty sweet to me.
Arcane Strike is like free damage if you find you ever have Swift Actions left. Improved Critical so you crit on a 15? There's not a whole lot of room to grow here.
There is no "cheese"(f*cking hate that term) in combining Dervish Dance with unarmed strikes.
It's very thematic, and the combo is hard to pull off, but still fun.
Yes there is, if you're only using Dervish Dance to get DEX for unarmed attack and damage. That is PURE cheese... or exploitation, if that word suits you better. No matter how you slice it (no pun intended), it's RAW abuse. Just holding a scimitar with no intention of using it while you punch things with your other hand and yell, "Look at me! I'm dervish dancing! Herp derp!" is obviously not RAI... and it's DEFINITELY not "thematic" to anything.
If your DM allows it, then great, cheese away (oh I'm sorry... I mean go ahead and exploit the wording). But if a player ever tried to build a character this way in one of MY games, I would smack him upside the head with the core rulebook. Dervish Dance is meant to work with scimitars only. I would ask if you intend to make unarmed attacks (punching) while you "hold" that scimitar... if so, then I would rule that Dervish Dance wouldn't work because you are armed with another weapon. I realize the wording says "if you are carrying a weapon", and that is my whole point. It's clear wordage abuse...
If you're actually wielding the Scimitar as a weapon (the whole freaking point of Dervish Dance) then you can't make unarmed attacks... because, well, you're armed. Either you're dervish dancing with JUST a scimitar or you're making unarmed attacks (key word: UNARMED)... can't do both.
Yes there is, if you're only using Dervish Dance to get DEX for unarmed attack and damage. That is PURE cheese... or exploitation, if that word suits you better. No matter how you slice it (no pun intended), it's RAW abuse. Just holding a scimitar with no intention of using it while you punch things with your other hand and yell, "Look at me! I'm dervish dancing! Herp derp!" is obviously not RAI... and it's DEFINITELY not "thematic" to anything.
If your DM allows it, then great, cheese away (oh I'm sorry... I mean go ahead and exploit the wording). But if a player ever tried to build a character this way in one of MY games, I would smack him upside the head with the core rulebook. Dervish Dance is meant to work with scimitars only. I would ask if you intend to make unarmed attacks (punching) while you "hold" that scimitar... if so, then I would rule that Dervish Dance wouldn't work because you are armed with another weapon. I realize the wording says "if you are carrying a weapon", and that is my whole point. It's clear wordage abuse...
If you're actually wielding the Scimitar as a weapon (the whole freaking point of Dervish Dance) then you can't make unarmed attacks... because, well, you're armed. Either you're dervish dancing with JUST a scimitar or you're making unarmed attacks (key word: UNARMED)... can't do both.
Where the heck are you getting the idea that this person is using Dex for hit and damage with unarmed strikes?
As I said, IUS is just a pre-req for Crane Style/Crane Wing. I, in fact, assume that the character has never used their unarmed strike. It doesn't even make sense why one would--hmm, do I use a d8 weapon with extended crit range, or a 1d3 weapon that only crits on a 20? Where are you getting this nonsense from?
Crane Wing to help tanking, I assume. I would imagine he never actually hits anyone unarmed.
If this is the case, then great. :) Dervish Dance and Crane Wing is a great combo.
In this case I would recommend taking 3 more levels in a martial class and finishing up the rest of your levels with Dawnflower Dervish. This means that by level 20 you will have a BAB of 16 (4 attacks) and you will be able to cast 6th level bard spells.
If you go this route, I would recommend taking 2 levels in Antipaladin (because you're evil) and 1 level in barbarian. The 2 levels in Antipaladin will give you a +5 boost in saving throws (because of Unholy Resilience), and 1 level of barbarian will get you Fast Movement. The problem is Rage won't do much for you because you don't use STR... still, it's a free action so you could do worse.
As for feats, if you take part in several encounters per day, the feat Extra Performance helps. Also check out the feats Step Up, Following Step, and Step Up and Strike. Great use of an Immediate action for tanks... and if enemies provoke attacks of opportunity from you a lot, Combat Reflexes would fit perfectly in there as well.
Where the heck are you getting the idea that this person is using Dex for hit and damage with unarmed strikes?
As I said, IUS is just a pre-req for Crane Style/Crane Wing. I, in fact, assume that the character has never used their unarmed strike. It doesn't even make sense why one would--hmm, do I use a d8 weapon with extended crit range, or a 1d3 weapon that only crits on a 20? Where are you getting this nonsense from?
When I first read the OP I couldn't imagine why anyone would invest in Unarmed Strike AND Dervish dance... the exploit was the only thing that came to mind because, yes, I have seen players do that sort of thing before. -_-
It didn't hit me that the unarmed stuff could just be for pre-reqs until you said "Probably for Crane Wing". This makes much more sense. :)
Actually, I just realized this is a Bard without Lingering Performance--what's up with that? Obtain it! Then you can use the X Finale line of spells without fear.
And if you want to tank better, you also probably want to look at The Dance of 23 Steps--it's a Masterpiece performance and it's awesome.
Sorry I left this post for so long, had to leave the house for a day.
Posters are correct, i only use IUS as a prerec for crane feats and deflect arrows.
DM thought it would be fun to give my character two sub ten stats so i've been playing with a 7 str for most of the game. Dawnflower dervish was my workaround for that.
I'm using a keen scimitar at the moment otherwise yes improved crit was on my get list.
Thank you for pointing out the anti-pally, I had dismissed it because he is inferior to the regular pally IMO because Lay on hands > Harm touch. But in looking at it again harm touch is irresistible. Still with just two lvls a 1d6 harm touch isn't going to be great. I plan on taking two levels of this class just for the full atk bonus and saves.
I hadn't considered three more dump levels because i didn't want to lose +4 courage. But again my mistake. that caps at 16! hazaa. Any suggestions for a non main barb or other full atk progression class to dip in? Urban looks good, Rage is allowed to help dex or con a little. and I get a plus one to hit and dodge.
For feats, I was looking at eldritch heritage feat but i'm not sure even with improved familiar on a chaotic evil character would be worth three feats.
Other feats I was considering was combat expertise then butterfly sting, I have a ninja and 2 hand great sword fighter in the party so they should be able to make good use of my 25% crit chance but that has similar problems to trying to get a familiar, combat expertise is a bad feat and I hate to waste even one of my last four.
Thank you again for your help and the advise!
If going the urban barb. Route then I would definitely grab extra rage for 6the more rounds/day instead of just the 4+con of 1st level
Oh yea, forgot to comment on a few of the suggestions.
I chose not to go with arcane strike because it uses my swift and I need that swift to often for things like bardic performance and the goblin roll with it feat.
I didn't know the eldritch heritage feat gave me more spells for my list? I thought it was just the first level power.
There's a second feat in the chain, Improved Eldritch Heritage, that gives you the 9th level bloodline power. The 9th level Arcane power is adding Sorc/Wiz spells to your list of spells known, and thus is awesome for bards. Yes, it costs 2 feats, but it's not like the familiar isn't awesome on its own. And an Improved Familiar is always good. The Imp and Quasit are both great, but are generally not discussed because you can't take them if you're Good.
Urban Barbarian is good for a full BAB, Dex buffing dip. You could even technically go EK after that if you wanted more casting/a bonus feat.
Cavalier might be good, too--Bard 16/Cavalier 1/Battle Herald 3? I don't know--high level is so crazy it almost doesn't matter what you do.
Oh, you have the pre-reqs for Duelist. Bard 16/Duelist 4, and your Scimitar works with the Duelist abilities thanks to Dervish Dance. That's +4 damage, +2 Initiative and Reflex, +4 more to AC vs. AoOs, +Int to AC (up to +4)--that seems perfect for you.