OK... so this is a kind of long, drawn out write up to a pretty specific question.
the players are fighting a monster with spell like abilities.
when the monster does one of these spell like abilities do the players know the monster is doing a "SPELL LIKE ABILITY" or is it just something they are doing.
when the monster does the spell like ability can the players spell craft it to say "Oh... that's just like doing XYZ spell"
Scenario: the players encounter an ancient magma dragon,
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon/-primal-ma gma/magma-dragon-ancient
As a part of precombat interaction the dragon hauks a big glowing magma dragon lugi in the general direction of the party in response to some comment or action by the party.(not targeting or hitting any one)
the lugi is ACTUALLY a delayed blast fireball.
which goes boom a few moments later.
but before it goes boom would the party,even wizards, have any way of knowing that the dragon had done delayed blast fireball as its a spell like ability and not a SPELL.
lets say the GM allows an opposed bluff vs sense motive to determine if the dragon did something sneaky. If the players win should they get a spell craft against the dragon or would they know he had done a spell as opposed to a general SOMETHING SNEAKY. (note... the dragon didnt really do anything overtly magical right? no verbal, somatic or any other covert magical actions)
Note: I am asking this not only for a rules interpretation but also for a 'how would you run this kind of situation'
also note.. this is not an actual situation in a game I am playing... but I am trying to determine how to run this kind of situation if I should come across it.
I'd assume they'd get a spellcraft to check, since you treat them like the spell unless otherwise noted. Though, they'd have to succeed on the perception/take the penalties to notice it since, it's not so obvious(no components) and I presume the spell level/dcs been upped since it's basically got a meta magic feat applied.
Honestly, though they'd be better off making a Knowledge Arcana, since it's an ongoing magical effect till it blows, which is an area where the skill can be used.
but how can you knowlage arcana something you do not know to be magical.
"hey guys lets knowlage arcana this pile of ogre dung"
in the above example they would not really have any reason to think the big lugi as anything other than a sign of draconic contempt... untill it explodes.
using a different example what if they are facing a relatively unknown magical creature with the ability to go invisible.
after getting beat up a bit it says "when next we meet things will not be the same, Ill get you my pretties and your little dog too" and disappears in a puff of smoke. unbeknownst to the players he did not teleport but rather went invisible faking a teleportation in order to drink a few healing potions and attack the party again.
spell craft would have all kinds of penalties because they do not have the benefit of spell components... but they would have no reasonable reason to knowlage arcana (unless they are knowlaging for the creatures abilities... right?
but how can you knowlage arcana something you do not know to be magical.
"hey guys lets knowlage arcana this pile of ogre dung"
in the above example they would not really have any reason to think the big lugi as anything other than a sign of draconic contempt... untill it explodes.
Saying that dragons aren't magical, is like saying that that my pencil is magical. Just isn't true.
And surely, in some arcane tome somewhere, they mention various magical properties dragon's breath have. Hence why, if a wizard or someone else with Arcana should know that. See my link below.
using a different example what if they are facing a relatively unknown magical creature with the ability to go invisible.
after getting beat up a bit it says "when next we meet things will not be the same, Ill get you my pretties and your little dog too" and disappears in a puff of smoke. unbeknownst to the players he did not teleport but rather went invisible faking a teleportation in order to drink a few healing potions and attack the party again.
spell craft would have all kinds of penalties because they do not have the benefit of spell components... but they would have no reasonable reason to knowlage arcana (unless they are knowlaging for the creatures abilities... right?
I agree in that situation Arcana wouldn't make sense in that situation as there isn't any visible ongoing effect to check on. That doesn't mean Arcana won't do that job(or some other skill).
To simply 'remember' info on a creature, even a rare-only one in the whole univers thing like a Tarasque, the DC is a 15 + CR of the monster to learn some useful information("special powers or vulnerabilities"). For every 5 points over, you get more info. Thems the mechanics.
Now, if you feel that this is a completely newly created beasty that has never existed before and cannot be know(or some other GM fiat), here a spellcraft is completely reasonable.
Cause spellcraft just works, even on immediate spells without components as has been pointed out in other threads, when explaining how you can spellcraft against a Silenced and Still'd spell. And as of the text, you take the penalties of perception, so if you are expecting a teleport and can't see the compnents(Its dark, foggy, etc) then they suffer the penalties for perception, but short of a feat like spell bluff, 'lying' about spells don't have a mechanical affect to my knowledge.
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SLA's are purely mental activities. There are no words or anything else for you to use in order to identify the spell. You could be paralyzed and still use an SLA. That is why I have always thought they could not be spellcrafted. I also figured that is the reason they can't be counterspelled, since a spellcraft is required before you can counterspell them.
See also this thread on identifying SLAs.
Hmmm, now I'm wondering if I've been doing it wrong this whole time, cause I've always given PCs a chance to use spellcraft to identify SLAs. I always assumed that they were treated exactly like spells in that regard, but if not, that would certainly make fights against monsters more exciting. I sometimes like my players to not know exactly what the monster is doing.
Read that thread, and I'm still of the opinion they can be identified.
The rules here are certainly not clear, because they generally assume that the act of casting a spell has some noticeable element. Notice I did not say component, because I think the rules are silent on parts of spellcasting that are codified components versus those that occur without any sort of codification, such as the wiggle of a finger, change in breathing and other flavor bits that happen when a spellcaster makes the magic happen, as it were.
Back to the topic at hand, since the rules are silent here, I think it is well within the GMs purview to impose a penalty to the Spellcraft check to identify a spell without components (V, S, M). Since there is no real increase for spells with just one, I would guess that this penalty is not very large, perhaps only as much as -4.
This is, of course, up to your GM to adjudicate.
Same applies to SLAs in my opinion. No components, doesn't matter, you just see the makings of magic at work with spellcraft.
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Seems all you need to be able to identify a spell being cast is the ability to see the caster, and SLAs work just like spells with no components, and there is nothing that states a spell with no components can't still be identified. So sure, if a monster uses a SLA, someone with Spellcraft can roll to identify it.
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but how can you knowlage arcana something you do not know to be magical.
In the OPs example, because the monster using the SLA is a dragon, which is covered by Knowledge (arcana).
"hey guys lets knowlage arcana this pile of ogre dung"
Well, that would be Knowledge (local). :p
I'd allow a Knowledge check to identify the abilities of any creature as normal for Knowledge skills. Not quite the same as using Spellcraft, but close enough to know that smoldering lugi is probably gonna explode.