[Homebrew] Undead Hunter (Ranger Archtype)

[Tirisfal]

I need some help fleshing (no pun intended) this one out. Here's what I've got so far. I think I really liked some of the skills the Vampire Hunter Inquisitor offers up, but I don't want this character to be a spellcaster class, and I don't want to dip into Inquisitor, because I really like the rest of the ranger abilities. As such, I'm also trying to figure out how to replace the spellcasting that the Ranger normally has access to. Here's what I've got so far.

At first level, the Undead Hunter adds Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (History), and Knowledge (Local) to her list of class skills and removes Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), and Handle Animals from the list.

At the risk of reposting the ENTIRE ability box, here's what I want to change:

Favored Enemy: Exactly the same as the Ranger ability, but the Undead Hunter must choose humanoid (undead) as their chosen enemy at first level.

Bane (Su): Exactly like the Vampire Hunter ability (see spoiler box at the bottom of this post) - replaces Wild Empathy at first level

Silversmith: Gain at second level. Exactly like the Vampire Hunter ability.

Additional notes:

-I think that Hunter's Bond should be replaced with something...do you think it has a place in this build? If not, what kind of ability would you replace it with?

-I think I want to remove the spellcasting from the class, without weakening it too much...what kind of ability would be powerful enough to replace spells? Maybe additional combat feats? Maybe a bonus feat that can only be used on Weapon Proficiency? Or maybe even Exotic Weapon Proficiency (for those vampire hunting whips and wooden stakes :D) That way, each level the Ranger would normally get a new spell slot, they can instead master a new weapon.

What are your thoughts? I'm still really new to all of this, and would love any and all feedback.

Thanks!!

EDIT:
I almost forgot, it would be sweet to add the Assassin's True Death ability to the Undead Hunter, but only against undead:

True Death (Su)

Spoiler:

Starting at 4th level, anyone slain by an assassin's death attack becomes more difficult to bring back from the dead. Spellcasters attempting to bring a creature back from the dead using raise dead or similar magic must make a caster level check with a DC equal to 15 + the assassin's level or the spell fails and the material component is wasted. Casting remove curse the round before attempting to bring the creature back from the dead negates this chance. The DC of the remove curse is 10 + the assassin's level.

For your reference:

Spoiler:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo--- inquisitor-archetypes/vampire-hunter

[Da'ath]

I do not have time to offer much advice at the moment, but I'll revisit this in the evening when my 18 month old is asleep.

You can effectively remove spellcasting from ranger using the Skirmisher Archetype applied to the ranger. It only removes spellcasting, and is the "default" ranger in my campaign setting (players can still play the standard, mind you).

I'll look more in-depth at the rest of it this evening.

Hope that helps.

[Tirisfal]

Da'ath wrote:

I do not have time to offer much advice at the moment, but I'll revisit this in the evening when my 18 month old is asleep.

You can effectively remove spellcasting from ranger using the Skirmisher Archetype applied to the ranger. It only removes spellcasting, and is the "default" ranger in my campaign setting (players can still play the standard, mind you).

I'll look more in-depth at the rest of it this evening.

Hope that helps.

Completely missed the Skirmisher, thanks! Yeah, I just don't think its very flavorful for a Ranger to be using divine magic :P

[Da'ath]

Tirisfal wrote:

Completely missed the Skirmisher, thanks! Yeah, I just don't think its very flavorful for a Ranger to be using divine magic :P

I agree. I get why it was in the 1st versions of rangers introduced to the game, and I don't fault anyone for liking it that way, but I really don't. I'd rather see a separate "sylvan magus" or some such that blended druidic magic and melee than the stuff they have for rangers.

[Tirisfal]

Da'ath wrote:

Tirisfal wrote:

Completely missed the Skirmisher, thanks! Yeah, I just don't think its very flavorful for a Ranger to be using divine magic :P

I agree. I get why it was in the 1st versions of rangers introduced to the game, and I don't fault anyone for liking it that way, but I really don't. I'd rather see a separate "sylvan magus" or some such that blended druidic magic and melee than the stuff they have for rangers.

I'm really liking the potential of the Skirmisher build...I think that maybe I could replace some of the Hunter's Tricks with other abilities that would give them a specific advantage in battle against the undead, to set it apart from the Skirmisher itself.

[Da'ath]

Skirmisher is definitely a favorite of mine. The tricks allow for a really versatile character and coming up with new ones with the pre-existing as your baseline makes it really easy (you only have to compare your new one to a small list, not a massive one such as spells).

I'd skip the bane ability entirely. As it stands, he's going to be hammering the hell out of undead anyway. Also, the tough part is what does the ranger give up for each ability you add to the archetype and are they comparable in power levels; what "theme" you want (a sun wielding huntsman of light, a vampire slayer d, a buffy the vampire slayer, or a Charlie Brewster/Peter Vincent) & what will compliment it? The more I know about this, the more I can suggest.

Suggestions (Based on what you have so far)

I'd replace wild empathy with the following (removed spellcraft reference, with the skirmisher archetype, a ranger shouldn't get it):
Silversmith At 1st level, a vampire hunter learns the secrets of crafting silver into dangerous weapons. She adds a bonus equal to her class level on any Craft check made to create a silver item that bypasses DR/silver, such as alchemical silver, silversheen, or silver weapon blanch.
This ability replaces wild empathy.

I'd replace hunter's bond with the following:
Hunter’s Bond (Ex) At 4th level, when a ranger gains the hunter’s bond ability, he must choose to bond with his companions. Vampire hunters do not have animal companions.
This ability replaces hunter's bond.

Hope it helps.

[Tirisfal]

Da'ath wrote:

Skirmisher is definitely a favorite of mine. The tricks allow for a really versatile character and coming up with new ones with the pre-existing as your baseline makes it really easy (you only have to compare your new one to a small list, not a massive one such as spells).

I'd skip the bane ability entirely. As it stands, he's going to be hammering the hell out of undead anyway. Also, the tough part is what does the ranger give up for each ability you add to the archetype and are they comparable in power levels; what "theme" you want (a sun wielding huntsman of light, a vampire slayer d, a buffy the vampire slayer, or a Charlie Brewster/Peter Vincent) & what will compliment it? The more I know about this, the more I can suggest.

Suggestions (Based on what you have so far)

I'd replace wild empathy with the following (removed spellcraft reference, with the skirmisher archetype, a ranger shouldn't get it):
Silversmith At 1st level, a vampire hunter learns the secrets of crafting silver into dangerous weapons. She adds a bonus equal to her class level on any Craft check made to create a silver item that bypasses DR/silver, such as alchemical silver, silversheen, or silver weapon blanch.
This ability replaces wild empathy.

I'd replace hunter's bond with the following:
Hunter’s Bond (Ex) At 4th level, when a ranger gains the hunter’s bond ability, he must choose to bond with his companions. Vampire hunters do not have animal companions.
This ability replaces hunter's bond.

Hope it helps.

I really like the change you made to Hunter's Bond - a simple change that keeps the archtype balanced.

I'm going for a Bram Stoker's Van Helsing-style undead hunter - that's why I chose the knowledge skills to replace the others. The class should be that of an educated, deliberate hunter of the undead. He's studied them in several different schools, be it their usual haunts, mythology and folklore surrounding them (local), historical evidence and stories (history), or of course, the go to knowledge check for the undead, (religion).

Hunter's Tricks:

We need to do away with:
Bolster Companion, Heel, and Sic 'Em.

Some of the others really work in this build, as an educated, expert undead hunter:
Aiding Attack, Cunning Pantomime, Quick Healing, and Ranger's Counsel.

The rest are kinda up in the air. I wouldn't think we should change all of the tricks, but as it stands now, the Undead Hunter is strictly better than the Skirmisher. There should be some cool stuff that the Skirmisher can still do that the Undead Hunter can't do - maybe we could do away with all of the animal tricks that give you a skill boost, like swimming, jumping, etc. That would balance it back so that there are cool things that the Skirmisher can do better.

Maybe:
Aim for the Heart (Ex): As a swift action, the Undead Hunter can try to strike an undead's weak point. The next time the Undead Hunter makes an attack against the target creature, he can deal critical hit damage on a roll of 17, 18, 19, or 20. The Undead Hunter must announce the use of this ability before using it. ((Sorry, I'm not expert at the rules text yet.))

I've got lots of ideas, but I'm having trouble trying to cram them into swift actions for the tricks.

Thanks for the help!

[Da'ath]

You can add multiple archetypes to the same class, provided they do not overwrite each other. In otherwords, you can apply the skirmisher archetype to your ranger so you don't have spells, then apply your vampire hunter on top of it, since they both alter different class features.

Quote from the Archetype Entry: A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as another alternate class feature. For example, a fighter could not be both an armor master and a brawler, since both archetypes replace the weapon training 1 class feature with something different.

Basically, you can "add" the entire skirmisher entry to your undead hunter, so to speak.

[Tirisfal]

Da'ath wrote:

You can add multiple archetypes to the same class, provided they do not overwrite each other. In otherwords, you can apply the skirmisher archetype to your ranger so you don't have spells, then apply your vampire hunter on top of it, since they both alter different class features.

Quote from the Archetype Entry: A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as another alternate class feature. For example, a fighter could not be both an armor master and a brawler, since both archetypes replace the weapon training 1 class feature with something different.

Basically, you can "add" the entire skirmisher entry to your undead hunter, so to speak.

Nice! Totally missed that!

[Zautos']

If you wont a ability against vampires i have one.

Vampire slayer:

wen a vampire slayer uses a hart Heartstake Bolts the dc increases by 1/2 class level and the vampire is helpless for 1d4 rounds. if you think its too good you can change it too wen the vampire slayer rolls a natural 20. or something simpler. .