I'm making a level 11 human (Shoanti) sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline).
You can find the almost ready character here.
So I'm wondering my options: do I take a bonded object or a familiar?
And what are the best options in these categories for my character?
'cause I'm new to this bonded object stuff, there are some questions.
Let's say I take an amulet as a bonded object. I then proceed to make it into a Necklace of Fireballs. When I've used all of them Fireballs, can I enchant the amulet again?
Can I add magic abilities to the amulet while it still bears it Necklace of Fireballs option? For example adding a Brooch of Shielding option to it? Or is it a sad fact that one item, be it a bonded item or a "normal" magical item, can only have one magical enchantment at a time? Sigh, sometimes I miss Ars Magica...
IMHO, take the Familiar. Extra actions nearly perfectly coordinated with you are awesome.
For base Familiars, I usually just go for the flavor factor, although you could either favor their 'special side bonus' (Init bonus, Skill bonus, that sort of thing) or an ability their physical form allows (monkey: object manipulating with hands, birds: flying). Improved Familiars just have so many possibilities... Elementals are great, Pseudo/Fairy Dragons are great, Imps are great (but very Evil), Sylvanshees have Lay on Hands, and a bunch of other far out stuff. You can get the Celestial/Fiendish/Entropic/etc Animals but I think the other Improved Familiars have better abilities and don't make you compromise about physical capabilities like Animals do (object manipulation, talking, movement, etc).
Bonded Objects are novel for Wizards, they gain spontaneous casting from their entire spellbook.
For a Sorceror, it's just more of the same...
Basically it's just an extra spell slot of your max spell level that you can't use metamagic on.
Still, if you are into it (as a Sorceror) it's not a BAD thing,
so if you aren't feeling the Familiar, sure: go for it.
You can enchant your Bonded Object like any other,
you just get to do so without needing the relevant Magic Crafting Feat.
Adding multiple qualities to an item is pretty much standard form for Magic Item crafting,
there is just an extra cost when doing so... read the Magic Item crafting rules.
If the use up the Fireballs first, then there wouldn't be an extra cost though.
(EDIT: that's a wierd case actually, and if you do that, you should be able to 'recharge'/re-enchant the item with more Necklace of Fireball ju-ju ON TOP of the Enchantment you originally added second WITHOUT paying the increased cost for having two Enchantments on the same item. Actually, since the 2nd Enchantment already payed that cost, you should be able to add ANY other Enchantment on top of that one without paying the increased '2 Enchantment' cost)
I'm not sure what your problem is with the Pathfinder rules here...? Have you read them?
I would have your GM or other more experienced players check over your spells known list,
that's rather crucial especially as a Sorceror, and starting a character at that level
there's alot of stuff that you should know, but if you don't you may be in trouble.
i'm sure people here could help with that also...
You can enchant your Bonded Object like any other,
you just get to do so without needing the relevant Magic Crafting Feat.
Adding multiple qualities to an item is pretty much standard form for Magic Item crafting,
there is just an extra cost when doing so... read the Magic Item crafting rules.I'm not sure what your problem is with the Pathfinder rules here...? Have you read them?
That's awesome! Thanks. Clearly, I haven't read my rules as much as I should've :)
sure thing, you're welcome...
dont' feel bad for not knowing every rule,
if you haven't played casters who do magic item crafting,
there really isn't a big need to understand those rules.
of course, once you do, you can use that knowledge when 'shopping' for non-crafting non-casters :-)
EDIT: one good thing about the bonded item is that it's alot simpler to use than keeping track of a Familiar, not to mention thinking of ways how to use the Familiar most effectively.
if you DO decide to go with a Familiar, here's a Hint: my favorite Familiar trick is using Share Spells/Deliver Touch Spells to allow your Familiar to deliver Dimension Door to Allies (and/or enemies), bypassing the normal scenario for Dimension Door where YOU must travel along, and can't take actions afterwards.... Great as an emergency rescue option in dangerous situations, or delivering the party fighters right onto the steps of the BBEG so they can Full Attack... The Familiar's Reach does come into play for how many passengers they can take, but you not having to go along for the ride yourself can often be a very relieving thing.
Agree w/ above, the bonded object is a much, much better deal for the wizard than for the sorceror. You can already spont. cast, and you don't have the massive volume of spells known to choose from.
If bonded object instead temporarily gave sorc a bonus spell known of any level he could cast 1/day...it'd be more in line w/ what wizards get.
For what it's worth, I'll second the idea that a sorcerer's probably better off with a familiar than with a bonded item. If you go that route and choose an Improved Familiar with hands, you'll want to swap your skills such that Use Magic Device is maxed -- familiars get your ranks, and a familiar who can use a wand is a happy familiar.
- I like dancing lights in addition to Light. You can send your dancing lights on ahead, which can be very useful.
- I'd pick up a polymorph spell that would allow me to deal with watery environments. You're a sorcerer with Eschew Materials, so the Elemental Body should be fine for casting, and it allows for some great movement modes (swim speed with no check casting, flight, earth glide) as well as minor buffs. If you'd rather keep your equipment, Monstrous Physique/Undead Anatomy are great lines, as well.
I'm confused by your choice of metamagic feats. What are you planning to Extend? Why do you need Silent Spell (you don't have ranks in Stealth)? Are you taking Heighten as prereq?
If bonded object instead temporarily gave sorc a bonus spell known of any level he could cast 1/day...it'd be more in line w/ what wizards get.
I would so love it if it worked that way...
Even if you had to 'set' the Bonded Item spell known every time you gained a spell level.It's not even that Sorcerors have that many more spell slots than Wizards,
but having +1 spell known but no more spell slots is just way more useful than the reverse.
But if a player isn't 'on top of the game' 100%, the easier to manage Bonded Object may in actuality more useful to them, even if the Familiar has more potential.
re: the UMD skill, i find that is has an unusual dynamic: it's just not really useful, especially in-combat, until you can reliably hit pretty high skill DCs. so instead of investing 1 rank in it for many many levels while I don't actually use it for the most part, it seems like the perfect candidate to 'instantly' max-out by gaining a +2 INT item. that can be an 'extra' added on to of a headband of +CHA, but due to costing concerns, I usually get an Ioun stone of +2 INT.
different familiars have different CHA scores, which affects when/what spells levels they can consistently activate with UMD, so if that's an important use of your Familiar for you, it makes sense to compare CHA stats of prospective Familiars.
sure thing, you're welcome...
dont' feel bad for not knowing every rule,
if you haven't played casters who do magic item crafting,
there really isn't a big need to understand those rules.
of course, once you do, you can use that knowledge when 'shopping' for non-crafting non-casters :-)
You are very right at that. I haven't played any casters, ever. Plus, I've never played a character whose level is higher than 3. Not because of the lack of gaming, but because of TPKs. And we always started from level 1.
I think I'll go with the familiar. True, I don't know my game that well, but it gives more interesting options and more fluff...
For what it's worth, I'll second the idea that a sorcerer's probably better off with a familiar than with a bonded item. If you go that route and choose an Improved Familiar with hands, you'll want to swap your skills such that Use Magic Device is maxed -- familiars get your ranks, and a familiar who can use a wand is a happy familiar.
- I like dancing lights in addition to Light. You can send your dancing lights on ahead, which can be very useful.
- I'd pick up a polymorph spell that would allow me to deal with watery environments. You're a sorcerer with Eschew Materials, so the Elemental Body should be fine for casting, and it allows for some great movement modes (swim speed with no check casting, flight, earth glide) as well as minor buffs. If you'd rather keep your equipment, Monstrous Physique/Undead Anatomy are great lines, as well.
I'm confused by your choice of metamagic feats. What are you planning to Extend? Why do you need Silent Spell (you don't have ranks in Stealth)? Are you taking Heighten as prereq?
Good tips. Definately taking Elemental Body.
On Feats: it is a mashup I'm going to change. Just had come up with something. Refer my reply to Quandary. I'm just a little over my head here. But the character creation has taught me alot. Good thing too, cause my players hit 4th
level in my Kingmaker campaign. And I have never GMd a group of adventurers in higher level than 3...
If bonded object instead temporarily gave sorc a bonus spell known of any level he could cast 1/day...it'd be more in line w/ what wizards get.I would so love it if it worked that way...
Even if you had to 'set' the Bonded Item spell known every time you gained a spell level.
Yeah... the first group I play with that adopted PF (I think in beta) had several sorcerers whose bonded items cast the spell. Even that -might- be worthwhile... but it's not how it works, either.
But if a player isn't 'on top of the game' 100%, the easier to manage Bonded Object may in actuality more useful to them, even if the Familiar has more potential.
If they understand about crafting, it could save some gold... but for the most part, it's a pearl of power that cripples you if you lose it.
so instead of investing 1 rank in it for many many levels while I don't actually use it for the most part, it seems like the perfect candidate to 'instantly' max-out by gaining a +2 INT item. that can be an 'extra' added on to of a headband of +CHA, but due to costing concerns, I usually get an Ioun stone of +2 INT.
It's absolutely true about saving the ranks for later. I'm not sure about using an Ioun stone, though -- I didn't think they granted ranks, and in any case, they're slotless so more than the 1.5 cost of adding it to a Cha-band. (Or a circlet of persuasion, if your familiar is the one wearing it.)
different familiars have different CHA scores, which affects when/what spells levels they can consistently activate with UMD, so if that's an important use of your Familiar for you, it makes sense to compare CHA stats of prospective Familiars.
This is true, too; also, Faerie Dragon casts as a sorcerer, so can use any arcane wand with spells from the sorcerer list without making the check. (Although not the very useful Cure and Lesser Restoration wands my familiars often use.)
To the OP:
Ooh, high levels are fun for a sorcerer. (Ok, ALL levels are fun for an arcane caster.)
I'd use a Lesser Rod of Extend for things like Mage Armor, and take Empowered Spell and Intensified Spell as feats since you have several blasts in your spells known. Silent Spell is probably not going to be much use -- you're not built to be stealthy otherwise.
In general, I'd say your spells are a good selection for general usefulness (you can see invisible things and make them visible, you have haste, resist energy, fly). This is a very good base, but usually, (in my experience and from what I've seen) casters also want to be pick one or two things to be really good at.
For example, maybe you want to cast the best fireball ever, or maybe you want to conjure pits and knock enemies into them, or maybe you want to debuff everybody by hitting them with Entangling Frigid Touches. If you haven't played to higher levels before, it can be hard to know what you might find fun.
threemilechild, thanks! I do have a lot of blasting spells for a reason. First because my knowledge of spells is somewhat limited, I chose spells that sound interesting - Ice Storm! Wall of Force! Mad Monkeys! Only then did I actually look what they did... :)
Second, there's a possibility that this character is a one-shot character only. So I want it to be fun to play also. And to that end, you've all helped a lot! Good thong too, cause the game starts in two hours... ;)
I'll post again when the game ends how it went!u
If you aren't wedded to the Arcane bloodline, several of the others are more interesting to play.
I DO find that Arcane Bloodline is one of the best bloodlines for doing Fighter/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight. (Yeah, people say Sorcerers make horrible EKs; they're wrong.)
Here's why:
1) Still Spell is the best way to handle casting in full armor. It also leaves your Swift Action open.
2) Still Spell means that anything you cast with it (which will be most of your spells) gets +1 to the save DC on the spell.
3) X/day metamagic ability lets you cast a few metamagically enhanced spells as standard actions; this can be worth it if it means you don't need to take Spontaneous Metafocus until later.
4) Bonded item (ring) means that you can craft a Ring of Spell Storing. With some limitations, this lets you use your first level spells while in armor. This is more important in Pathfinder Society play, where item creation doesn't formally exist. It also lets you "time shift" some spells for later; even more than most Sorcerers, Eldritch Knights tend to be "burst mode" casters.
I personally like Extend Spell, because it works with a huge range of spells.
Favorite fun ones:
Extended Acid Arrow: +1 Spell level means it does double the net damage.
Extended Mage Armor: All day spell at 11th level, though if you're close enough to need it...
Extended False Life: Very nice "insurance" spell.
Extended Infernal Healing is surprisingly useful.
Extended Heroism is also a lovely buff to put on a party buddy, usually the Rogue.
Traits you may want to look at include Magical Lineage - take one spell and subtract one level from it when applying metamagic feats. My Starsoul Sorcerer has gotten excellent mileage out of this in Pathfinder Society play.