Weapon Master's Weapon Training


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does a weapon master's weapon training class ability add its bonus to CMB and CMD checks made with the weapon?

The standard ability clearly says yes, but the Weapon Master fighter archetype only references attack and damage.

Grand Lodge

Bonuses to attacks apply to CMB.

This is universal.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Are you implying that Weapon Training gets added to CMB twice, once because attack bonuses are universally added to CMB, and once more because Weapon Training specifically says so?

In any case, bonuses to CMD are not universal, hence the question.


Yes. BBT is correct. Not it is not added twice. PF has a habit of putting random reminders into abilities, but they don't always do it.

What do you mean by bonuses to CMD are not universal?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A vanilla fighter's Weapon Training adds to CMD against attacks that target his chosen weapons.

I'm asking if the Weapon Training ability of the Weapon Master ALSO applies a bonus to CMD against attacks that target his chosen weapon (since it only mentions attack and damage bonuses, not CMD bonuses).

Grand Lodge

Yes.

The note in weapon training about adding to CMB is simply a reminder.

As I said, bonuses to attacks add to CMB, and that's why a Magus can pull off his True Strike and Trip combo.


The weapon master's "weapon training" does not add to the CMD bonus.
His "weapon guard" ability doe against certain effects.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

James Jacobs was kind enough to provide his thoughts on the matter as well.

James Jacobs wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Does a Weapon Master's weapon training class ability add its bonus to CMB and CMD checks made with the weapon?

The standard Weapon Training ability of the vanilla fighter clearly says as much, but the Weapon Master fighter archetype seems to reference attack and damage only.

Yes, it does. Anything that enhances your atatck [sic] roll for a specific weapon also enhances your CMB and CMD checks/scores made as [it] relates to effects that utilize the weapon in question.

I've asked him if this means that bonuses from things like Weapon Focus or a magic weapon's enhancement bonus could be applied to CMD in certain situations as well.

He has not yet replied.

Grand Lodge

Well, there you go.

As I said, bonus to attack means bonus to CMB.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I never really refuted that...

Grand Lodge

I misunderstood then.

I apologize.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Does a Weapon Master's weapon training class ability add its bonus to CMB and CMD checks made with the weapon?

The standard Weapon Training ability of the vanilla fighter clearly says as much, but the Weapon Master fighter archetype seems to reference attack and damage only.

Yes, it does. Anything that enhances your atatck roll for a specific weapon also enhances your CMB and CMD checks/scores made as relates to effects that utilize the weapon in question.

Wait, does that mean that Weapon Focus (rapier) would also add +1 to my CMD to prevent my rapier from being disarmed or sundered?

I thought only Strength/Dexterity modifiers as well as circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, sacred, and size bonuses to AC could be added to CMD.

That is indeed what that means. At least, it means that in games I run. Unless I'm taught the error of my ways.

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