Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
I play in PFS twice a week, which means 5 WHOLE DAYS of NOT gaming.
That has to be one of the most awesome things I've ever read. I need you as a customer, sir.
And, yes, I remember these days:
You wanna talk "nonstop gaming"? When I was a teenager I had to keep a day planner because I gamed 6 days a week, and on 2 of those days I had one game in the morning (11am-6pm) and another game at night (7pm-midnight or later)
And I miss them.
Considering this, though:
Yeah...because the point of PFS is that game doesnt get cancelled just because the healer cant make it. If we could swap characters in and out just as easily without worrying about "continuity" and "building rapore" with other adventurers in character. So- Campaigns just arent feasible for most of these people-or so they claim. (nevermind that they consistently show up every week without fail)
...I think you owe it to yourself and your gaming group to do a little sales job. If they're already showing up consistently, there is no reason to not run an AP. They are fun, rewarding, and very flexible. Meaning that, even if someone doesn't show up every week, you can play without them. Also, the most recent AP is built around the Pathfinder Society concept. I think you could port that into a PFS-style experience pretty easily.
This negates the penalty of death. Don't we all want character death to mean something?
In Season 1, there was an argument for limited replay. Now that it's Season 4, I think the disadvantages of replay strongly outweigh the advantages.However, Vixeryz's idea of allowing replay for a scenario in which you had a character death is a good idea imo.
NO it DOESNT, because THAT character STILL DIED. The penalty is that you cant play it anymore and you have to make a new one.
What I MEANT was that if you didnt get to fully experience that scenario (in which the character died) then you should get the opportunity to experience it with a DIFFERENT character.
I will agree that, should a character die (and it's irrevocable), that the death penalty is losing that character. I don't think it'd be all that big a deal to let someone play through it later on with a different character. It absolutely requires that irrevocable death, though. If your guy gets raised, this idea is a "no-go."
And this:
At the very least- they could release another (different) "first steps" trio. A DIFFERENT storyline for the purpose of introducing level 1s into pfs. Just so GMS wont get quite so bored to death of telling the same story over and over for the newbs.
...I wholeheartedly agree with. I'm pretty tired of those three scenarios, already, and I've never even played them.
|
|
2-3 times a week isnt nonstop either. I play in PFS twice a week, which means 5 WHOLE DAYS of NOT gaming. I dont have the money to attend conventions, not even the local ones.I think what people are telling you is that, while it feels like a small amount of time per week to you, for most of them, that's a lot more time than they have available to spend gaming on a weekly basis. Compared to most of us, you do play a lot!! And, as I've noted several times already, PFS (or any OP campaign) really isn't structured to accommodate the needs of a gaming group that's capable of playing 100-150 one-round scenarios in a calendar year. You may not want to acknowledge it, but you and your group are, frankly, out on one end of of the bell curve, as far as frequency of play.
You may find this difficult to believe, but a lot of adult gamers find their schedules to be stretched pretty thin, between their jobs, family responsibilities, etc. One free evening, or a few hours on a weekend, may well be all they have for their favorite hobby.
I have a home campaign which has been going on for over a decade. I'm the DM, and I have five players in the group. Our goal is to play once a month (we usually play on Sunday evenings). We have played a grand total of three times this year, despite the fact that we all love the game, and we're all very good friends...schedules get full with other things, work trips happen, work deadlines crop up at the last minute, players' kids get sick, etc., etc.
If the kids get sick, play at their house and keep the kids in their room. I find it extremely hard to believe that you cant make time. How much time do you spend watching movies (whether at theaters or at home) or playing other games (board games, cards, video games), drinking and or just hanging out? You could always use that time for gaming...
If you find that your "designated sunday" people just cant come together- reschedule it for either next...
I'm sorry that you're not getting the support you want or feel you deserve for your cause; but that is no need to downright rude to people about how much time they do or don't spend gaming.
As we get older life happens and we roll with it; sometimes things happen and gameing for that month is pushed back.. good grief.
|
|
At the very least- they could release another (different) "first steps" trio. A DIFFERENT storyline for the purpose of introducing level 1s into pfs. Just so GMS wont get quite so bored to death of telling the same story over and over for the newbs.A good teller of tales can repeat the same story a thousand times and every time it will be different because the people listening are different.
Take the game beyond the box text and involve the specific PCs that are being played as people (instead of toons) and I assure that the game will never be the same twice.
:-D
Agreed, some of my most fun games have been the ones where the scenario is pretty much just laid down on the table and referenced only occassionally as the players take the game in new directions.
|
|
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
Judge vs. GM minor difference from my perspective and kind of a small issue to nitpick on reallyYou'll very rarely see tables ok with (and honestly it shouldn't happen)with someone sitting down to replay when it's already a legal table.
The rules are 2 credits, period, you get one for playing and one for judging/GMing (happy?). There were days of past where you could replay once for each faction.. that didn't work so well as after the first time people started cherry-picking characters and factions for different scenarios..
It's better now.. why can't we just leave it at that?
I frequently see tables that dont mind people who replay- especially if it means they GET to play AT ALL.
I agree that once for each faction would be excessive- but like I said, replay for character death is all REALLY i care about
Death happens .. and while it's unfortunate it is also part of the game and since you do have the option of sitting there and still experiencing it, I can see death and not justifiable for a replay.
|
|
Exactly!
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome some day I look forward to playing at a table with you.
hehe .. hoping i can make it to west coast cons soon .. gotta get this pesky last year out of the way and then I'll see how my schedule opens up!!!! or
whatcha doin in March? our local con is the beginning of March (hint hint)
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
What I MEANT was that if you didnt get to fully experience that scenario (in which the character died) then you should get the opportunity to experience it with a DIFFERENT character.and
...I wholeheartedly agree with. I'm pretty tired of those three scenarios, already, and I've never even played them.Vixeryz there is another way to experience the scenario in more depth and from all perspectives. That would be to run it as a GM.
Also unrecoverable death early in a scenario does not mean that you have to pack up and leave. You could certainly experience the rest of the scenario vicariously by watching your fellow pathfinders complete the mission.
Trust me, I've done all of what is suggested: changed NPC interaction, referenced the module only when I need a stat, let the PCs derail to their hearts' content...Doesn't mean I'm not bored to tears by those scenarios, though. Besides, as written they are a pain to adjudicate. The "don't pick a faction" thing gets in the way every time, and explaining it (or handwaving it, or ignoring it), is always a pain.
I want more "Master of the Fallen Fortress" style one-shots that are good for introducing.
On this note, I'm excited by the "Quests" concept that is being introduced this season. I hope it bears fruit.
[Edit] And, I have to be honest. If I get smoked early in a scenario and don't have the funds to raise my guy, I have other things to do. I'd rather be able to walk away with no hard feelings and be able to "give it another go" in the future. But, I am willing to leave this on the table in favor of no replay. Don't get me wrong.
|
|
I'm sorry that you're not getting the support you want or feel you deserve for your cause; but that is no need to downright rude to people about how much time they do or don't spend gaming.
As we get older life happens and we roll with it; sometimes things happen and gameing for that month is pushed back.. good grief.
I was going to make a snarky comment about inviting Vixeryz to attempt to be the scheduling monkey for my home group, but PFCBG's post sums up my feelings pretty well.
I'm not sure how this thread morphed from "we need replay" to both "stop saying we play a lot -- we really *don't*", as well as "you guys would all play just as much as we did if you really tried, so you must not *really* be trying".
At any rate, the OP's tone has gotten pretty rude, and he doesn't seem to have any interest at all in some of the alternative ideas that've been suggested. I'm outta here.
|
For my part, we have a single PFS group in our area, that started in January this year. I've been there from the beginning, and we've gotten 1 completely new player every 3 months or so. Because there's only one group, the new player either has to play a high level premade for the rest of his career or everyone has to go back to level 1 and start new characters. The GM and I have done this 4 times now. The GM has already played the scenarios he is GMing, so, once we run out of level 1 scenarios to play, we'll be in trouble. I believe our newest player has stopped showing up once he realized he won't be able to play the level 1 barbarian he made (for example, when we scheduled Midnight Mirror).
I've been thinking for a while now that we should just stop playing PFSOP and either just do the scenarios off the grid, so to speak, or do something else entirely. Of course, that means PFSOP dies in our area.
|
|
For my part, we have a single PFS group in our area, that started in January this year. I've been there from the beginning, and we've gotten 1 completely new player every 3 months or so. Because there's only one group, the new player either has to play a high level premade for the rest of his career or everyone has to go back to level 1 and start new characters. The GM and I have done this 4 times now. The GM has already played the scenarios he is GMing, so, once we run out of level 1 scenarios to play, we'll be in trouble.
I've been thinking for a while now that we should just stop playing PFSOP and either just do the scenarios off the grid, so to speak, or do something else entirely. Of course, that means PFSOP dies in our area.
Serum is it just one table of players?
would the group be willing to slip games .. 1 month high level, 2nd month low level? Not saying we have all the answers, but we have a ton(weight them I bet it's really a ton) of volunteers and coordinators that might have some ideas that could work.
|
|
Yes, it's just one table. Back in January-April, there were enough players to occasionally get two tables, but at this point we're hovering around 4-5 players with 1 GM, aside from the beginning of September when our Venture-Captain decided show up with a bunch of people, putting us at 7 players with 1 GM. In addition, our venue currently doesn't support more than one table, although we might be able to talk the store owner into giving us access to some space into the rest of the store.
Due to the number of restarts we've done, our highest level characters are 4-5, so the veteran players have just made it into the next tier. I think the character levels are something like player1:4,4,3,2, player 2:5,4,3, player3:5,2, player4:4,1, player5:1. I don't know what the GM's characters are like.
The problem with doing mixing high- and low-level scenarios/modules, is that, since we can generally only get one table running, the new players will always be playing a pregen when doing the high-level scenarios, and his low level character can only play with the set of characters that were made specifically because he joined. It also doesn't get rid of the problem that, once we use up our level 1 scenarios, most of us need to stop playing for credit, or the new player has to stop leveling up his own character.
And, of course, the new players always show up when we're not expecting it, so their first character immediately becomes ineligible for the first steps (in fact, none of us have done first steps because we've never all created new characters at the same time) line of scenarios.
|
|
Yes, it's just one table. Back in January-April, there were enough players to occasionally get two tables, but at this point we're hovering around 4-5 players with 1 GM, aside from the beginning of September when our Venture-Captain decided show up with a bunch of people, putting us at 7 players with 1 GM. In addition, our venue currently doesn't support more than one table, although we might be able to talk the store owner into giving us access to some space into the rest of the store.
Due to the number of restarts we've done, our highest level characters are 4-5, so the veteran players have just made it into the next tier. I think the character levels are something like player1:4,4,3,2, player 2:5,4,3, player3:5,2, player4:4,1, player5:1. I don't know what the GM's characters are like.
The problem with doing mixing high- and low-level scenarios/modules, is that, since we can generally only get one table running, the new players will always be playing a pregen when doing the high-level scenarios, and his low level character can only play with the set of characters that were made specifically because he joined. It also doesn't get rid of the problem that, once we use up our level 1 scenarios, most of us need to stop playing for credit, or the new player has to stop leveling up his own character.
And, of course, the new players always show up when we're not expecting it, so their first character immediately becomes ineligible for the first steps (in fact, none of us have done first steps because we've never all created new characters at the same time) line of scenarios.
Have you talked to a couple of the higher tier players to see if they'd be willing to run a few off-gameday sessions with the new players to bump them up to the higher tier? It might take some fancy talking if you're asking them to play for no credit (replay) but that way the new players would fell better welcomed into the group, they wouoldn't feel like a burdan to the group as a whole and you wouldn't have to burn more lvl 1 scenarios until everyone was ready to start new characters and you could do the first steps series
|
One of the purposes of the No Replay rule is to encourage people to GM and grow the community.
There are X number of scenarios and a chance to get 2X amount in XP if you GM.
A side benefit of No Replay is that it also encourages AP play. If someone is burning through 2-3 PFS scenarios a week with the same group, they can easily switch to one of the many great APs that Paizo has put out. Heck, see if you can burn through RotR and Shattered Star in 6 months with that play volume.
No Replay is going to be around for a long time, I feel, and for good reasons that have been outlined in every other post about replay that has existed since the start of the campaign. Contribute by GMing to get credit or start an AP. Either way, it's a win-win.
|
I am glad there is no replay allowed.
The constant complaints from people "about to run out of scenarios to play" really irritate me because if there is one thing PFS needs to grow, it is judges, excuse me, GMs. If you really have played every scenario then you are more than qualified to run a session. Really, you are. If after, what was it, 500 some odd hours of play, you will have an understanding of the rules. Even if you don't, the other gm's playing at your table will help you.
See, the secret is we want you to succeed. We want you to have fun. We need you to volunteer your time so other people can play. I have strong feelings about this because I gm a lot outside of society play. I run two Adventure Paths for two different groups of people. I wanted to get my play fix from society because no one in my other groups wants to GM. So after being persuaded by a friend to help him organize society play at a store, I made a disappointing discovery. No one wants to gm. Everybody just wants to play. So I found myself volunteering to gm more than I played because I wanted this thing to succeed; I wanted our fledgling game day to attract people. And this only happens when you get people behind the screen (and I have two lovely 1st edition AD&D DM screens I always enjoy showing off. The psionics combat table makes new players cry...). I have three active characters, and all of them have more GM credit XP than play.
Sadly, I think this will fall on deaf ears. Oh, well...