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As the title suggests, which do you find more powerful. I haven't optimized Sense Motive at all, and it'll be at a 9 at 3rd lvl. Think it'll be worth it, scaling from there, 9, 10, 11, etc?
Are you a Master of Many Styles?
Snake Style itself is pretty bad, but snake fang rocks. But w/o MoMS, the wait and feat cost is too high to justify.
Dragon Style the base feat is nifty, the 2nd feat is ok, the 3rd feat is bad. Better choice if you're not a MoMS.
Have you considering Crane Style? That whole chain is great.
Straight Monk, wielding a Sansetsukon, so the bonus to STR from Dragon Style on every other attack during FoB. Was looking at using Snake Style to boost that AC, currently at a 16. But yeah, there it is.
I'd suggest just being smart about purchases to boost the AC, rather than using snake style as a crutch.
The game rewards you for spreading out AC increases over multiple items, rather than advancing one.
If you regularly get to play with arcanists, invest in a pearl of power level 1, so they can cast mage armor on you. Barring that, get a wand of Mage Armor. Surely someone in a given group can use magic device, at least.
Get ring of protect +1.
Then natural armor +1 if not using amulet of mighty fists.
Then wis and dex +2 items.
Then dusty rose iuon stone.
Then upgrade ring of protect to +2.
Then upgrade nat armor to +2 if not using amulet of mighty fists.
Being a monk is really tough, especially with the current state of flurry of blows...
Or...just look again at Crane Style. You can get Crane Wing at level 5. You can 2H the sansetsukon on your turn, then free action to hold it with only 1H before ending your turn to have a hand free for Crane Wing. Then free action to 2H it again start of your next turn... Crane Style with 3 acrobatics ranks is -2 to hit for +4 AC. Crane Wing adds first melee attack missing to that. Instant defensive boost.
What do you want to do with your Monk, and what do you picture your feat adding? Snake Style and Dragon Style add two very different things. Snake Style adds a tremendous amount of survivability, while Dragon Style tries very hard to add damage. It also depends largely on your STR. Unless you have at least 18 STR, Dragon Style is flat-out not worth it. If you have at least 18 STR, it's basically a more limited Weapon Specialization.
If you do decide on Dragon Style, do some quick calculations to make sure Power Attack isn't actually better (taking into consideration that you can THF with your weapon for the higher ratio on half your attacks).
Also, what archetypes do you have / other things do you plan on doing?
They work very differently, so you need to consider which suits your character better.
Whilst snake style at lower levels can make up for a low AC (I had a level 1 MoMS go into melee with a CR4 Otyugh, deal about half the creature's hp in damage and still survive thanks to snake style and some lucky rolls), at higher levels it shines when your AC is high and you have a good dex+combat reflexes. Basically, by the time you get snake fang, you should be aiming to do lots of counter-strikes. Snake style will probably still save you from an occassional touch attack too.
Dragon style is very different. With dragon style, you want a high STR to capitalise on the extra str-based damage. The 3rd feat is very miss-able, whilst the 2nd feat is awesome for str-based monks.
So if you're a high dex/wis monk, go for snake and max that AC. If you're str-focused, go dragon.
Personally i'm a fan of the boar styles, but thats just me. Otherwise, base it on your stats like above.
Snake Style as a constant use is not always the best since it eats your Swifts.
However Snake Style to avoid a Touch Attack of say, banshees and nasty things that may have effects attached to them is pretty awesome. The follow up feats are great.
- One thing, I read recently that the MoMS monk could potentially ignore the 2nd feat in the style chains, due to the wording of his ability. Is this correct?
Not potentially. He can. Explicitly so. Which is why I asked. Snake Sidewind is awful, but Snake Fang is pure freakin' gold.
And the thing w/ touch attacks is...monk already tends to get a good touch AC. For some other class, I could see the appeal there.
For PFS I would go Dragon style. My level 10 monk has it. Best thiung is it allows you access to Elemental fist early. That means you can get the damage up when you need it. My monk is a manouver master so it is dirty trick, trip (greater) and then Aoo. Still have two attacks left, hello elemental fist and then attach a stun to the last shot.
I actually don't think snake sidewind is that bad. Sure you may not get crits that often, but when you do, snake sidewind makes you very likely to confirm the threat.
Well, seeing as how I'm wielding a 2H Sansetsukon, only every other attack will be an Unarmed Strike, so the 1.5 damage on Unarmed Strike bonus from Dragon Style isn't so much of a big deal. For Dragon Style, the real bonus is being able to charge over hindering terrain, and through allies. Many times in PFS it's hard to set up a charge, allies are often in the way. I thought that this would allow me to get into position quicker in an attempt to FoBs.
Snake Style has a couple of nice things going on with it, currently my Sense Motive is +9, +11 if I take Snake Style. Now, with my AC being 16, I'd only need to roll a 5 or better to match or exceed my AC. I like that Snake Style is a single feat, as opposed to really needing the three feats for Crane Style to become effective. Monks have a bit of a problem hitting in general, so I really don't want to be making it any harder to hit. Now another question to ask with Snake Style is, do I want to sink a single Skill Point in Sense Motive every level. As a skill there's only so much to be done with it, am I right?
So there it is - the tactical benefits of Dragon Style vs the Defensive bonus granted by Snake Style.
If you plan to use style feats, you really have to go MoMS or plan from level 1, since most of them are -meh- until the 2nd/3rd one.
You're using a 2h as a monk, what're your future plans? Is that a long term thing, or just a convenience for low level dpr?
If you want to ignore the terrain, take the feat for that.
If you want the AC, buy a wand of mage armor/shield and get someone to cast it for you, that's better AC than droppin a feat you dont really get the benefit of either one.
Well, it's for PFS which tops out at 12th lvl, and a monk's unarmed damage progression doesn't reach 1d10 until 8th lvl. So on lvls 8-11 it's the same damage die as the Sansetsukon. Basically I'm getting a higher damage die earlier that I can enchant much cheaper & easier. I guess that was the thinking.
I don't understand why you're even considering dragon given that you're a weapon user. Or snake, since you've not optimized sense motive at all.
So really, the answer is 'neither.' ;)
That said, if you're set on one of them, take Snake. You'll get more mileage out of it. And even though you're not optimized for it, +skill items are way cheaper than +ac items, point for point, so you can boost your sense motive fairly easily.
For the tactical advantage of being able to charge through difficult terrain, and to be able to charge through allies. The +2 bonus on saving throws versus enchantment spells & effects and the 1 and a half damage on the first unarmed strike is just a mere bonus.
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