..or any other kit that has expendable uses in it, such as a Healer's Kit.
It'd be a minor magic item for sure.. say 500gp? That's the equivalent of buying 10 regular kits. That is 100 uses.. surely that's more than a character would ever need and therefore is equal to 'endless'?
Thoughts?
One-hundred uses seems reasonable, since that's the cost for enchanting an unlimited magical item that casts a spell with an expensive material component.
Hat of disguise 1,800 gp
...except a Disguise Kit is mundane (so no giveaway magical aura) and it stacks.
500gp "feels" cheap, but I can offer no justification for going higher.
500g seems fine. ALternately you could just literally buy 100 uses and be more or less fine for a LONG time.
I think you should pay more for an "endless" disguise kit than a hat of disguise. Endless denotes magical (or some other special effect), and with that in mind, we look to the Hat of Disguise. The hat of disguise takes the head slot; the endless kit is slotless, i.e. I'd price it at the cost of the Hat with a little change on top since it uses no slot and presumably, since it is likely magical, doesn't add much more than a normal disguise kit to encumberance.
I think you should pay more for an "endless" disguise kit than a hat of disguise. Endless denotes magical (or some other special effect), and with that in mind, we look to the Hat of Disguise. The hat of disguise takes the head slot; the endless kit is slotless, i.e. I'd price it at the cost of the Hat with a little change on top since it uses no slot and presumably, since it is likely magical, doesn't add much more than a normal disguise kit to encumberance.
I disagree. A disguise kit adds +2 and only if it's a really good one. The rest of the usefulness is dependant upon your skill. The hat of disguise however, is a +10 and a lot quicker to put on the disguise.
I disagree. A disguise kit adds +2 and only if it's a really good one. The rest of the usefulness is dependant upon your skill. The hat of disguise however, is a +10 and a lot quicker to put on the disguise.
You have an excellent point about the speed of use. That would definitely offset any cost (in my opinion) regarding the price of a slotless item.
However, the +2 disguise kit is the base disguise kit (i.e. the norm), not a "really good one" and not necessary for use of the Diguise skill (it makes sense, if that's how you rule it) - as far as RAW. At best, I could see adding quality level to the kit, if unlimited, with a base price of 360gp for +2, +4 for 720, and so on up to +10 for 1800gp, but that's about it.
I disagree. A disguise kit adds +2 and only if it's a really good one. The rest of the usefulness is dependant upon your skill. The hat of disguise however, is a +10 and a lot quicker to put on the disguise.You have an excellent point about the speed of use. That would definitely offset any cost (in my opinion) regarding the price of a slotless item.
However, the +2 disguise kit is the base disguise kit (i.e. the norm), not a "really good one" and not necessary for use of the Diguise skill (it makes sense, if that's how you rule it) - as far as RAW. At best, I could see adding quality level to the kit, if unlimited, with a base price of 360gp for +2, +4 for 720, and so on up to +10 for 1800gp, but that's about it.
It's not a slotless item. It's a tool. That's like charging double for a lute. It's just an infinite supply of a mundane item. The magic used to creat it is "instant" as opposed to "permanent." It's a minor but important distinction.
If you want to further add magical "+" bonuses to the use of this endless kit that's another matter entirely and should be more expensive as you said.
The torch is a tool, thus doesn't take up a slot. It costs 1 cp. An everburning torch is a tool, thus doesn't take up a slot. It costs 110gp (or 11,000 cp). An Efficient Quiver is a "tool" in that it holds your arrows. It does not take up a slot. An item that does not take up a slot is slotless. I'm not really sure why you're arguing about about the definition of the term slotless, but whatever floats your boat.
Making the mundane item magical/permanent has a markup price. I don't necessarily think it should be an 11,000% markup (as in the case of the everburning torch), but there should definitely be a markup.
It costs 50gp for a +2 Disguise kit which weighs 8lbs (a stack of 10 is 500gp and 80lbs if you're carring them - you'd reasonably only have to carry 1 at a time and store the others). Making this permanent and dropping the overall weight a character must carry without having to purchase more or return to their home shouldn't be overlooked.
I may have misunderstood your earlier comment. Though the everburning torch is a bad example as it has a costly material component and is a magic effect.
I stand by the fact that I think it's a non-issue. The cost of 100 of the mundane products would be fine by me. I also think the weight is a factor. Dimensional spaces are common enough. Now if it was an endless supply of somethign heavy i would concern myself with the weight. It's all just an opinion though.
I may have misunderstood your earlier comment.
If you did, the fault lies with me for not clarifying or making the statement clear to begin with.
Though the everburning torch is a bad example as it has a costly material component and is a magic effect.
Valid and interesting point. I started to write a breakdown of the cost and decide it was ultimately futile - the pricing on some items is too arbitrary to develop a formula. I like formulas.
I stand by the fact that I think it's a non-issue. The cost of 100 of the mundane products would be fine by me .
I agree more now than I did a few posts ago, so that's something.
I also think the weight is a factor. Dimensional spaces are common enough. Now if it was an endless supply of somethign heavy i would concern myself with the weight. It's all just an opinion though.
The commonality of dimensional spaces as a problem or not a problem is something I can debate all day, so I won't touch on it. The weight of the item does play a large roll in determining value in my campaign setting; I run a high magic game, but the availability of certain items is scarce due to demand.
The commonality of dimensional spaces as a problem or not a problem is something I can debate all day, so I won't touch on it. The weight of the item does play a large roll in determining value in my campaign setting; I run a high magic game, but the availability of certain items is scarce due to demand.
To clarify: I mean the weight doesn't matter much to me since it's fairly light to begin with. I suppose I should actually look up how much it weighs. I cant imagine it's that heavy since it's just makeup and fake hair.
The commonality of dimensional spaces as a problem or not a problem is something I can debate all day, so I won't touch on it. The weight of the item does play a large roll in determining value in my campaign setting; I run a high magic game, but the availability of certain items is scarce due to demand.To clarify: I mean the weight doesn't matter much to me since it's fairly light to begin with. I suppose I should actually look up how much it weighs. I cant imagine it's that heavy since it's just makeup and fake hair.
It weighs 8 lbs. for 10 uses, which surprised me.
It weighs 8 lbs. for 10 uses, which surprised me.The commonality of dimensional spaces as a problem or not a problem is something I can debate all day, so I won't touch on it. The weight of the item does play a large roll in determining value in my campaign setting; I run a high magic game, but the availability of certain items is scarce due to demand.To clarify: I mean the weight doesn't matter much to me since it's fairly light to begin with. I suppose I should actually look up how much it weighs. I cant imagine it's that heavy since it's just makeup and fake hair.
80 lbs for 100 uses is a lot, but not ridiculous. It'd be heavy, but most people could do that. Espically if they had a pack horse. I'd hand wave it. I just don't see an endless disguise kit as that big of a deal.
I'm not trying to be argumentative so much as get my point across regarding the encumberance issue/weight of the items in question. Assuming the average person has a Strength 10, 67-100lbs is a heavy encumberance (having done a 20 mile road march with an 80lb rucksack on my back in basic training, I do not believe even an "average" person could do that. We had several physically fit men collapsing from exhaustion). As a general statement, rogues do not tend to have high strength, for example, and counting all their other gear and armor, this will most likely put them well into the category of heavy encumbrance.
Pack animals are a great solution, so are extra-dimensional spaces. Depending on the campaign or the current setting where an adventure is taking place, these aren't always viable options. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is that the reduced weight of the item makes for a high quality of life increase for a rogue (which I am not against), in keeping with the example.
If encumbrance rules aren't used, then my argument is completely without foundation.
Edit: Ultimately, I think 500gp is too cheap for the item, while 1800gp (accounting for your points) is too expensive.