Special Multiclass Feats (To reward true multiclassing). Has this been done?

[Rudy2]

I'm interested in developing a set of feats (some examples below) that would reward players to take several levels in two different core classes. I'm interested in feedback on whether this has been done elsewhere, and also if anyone was interested in contributing.

I'm aware of the Multiclass Archetypes on the srd. While interesting, that is not the same thing as this.

Each class combination has a set of three feats, each requiring the previous ones in the sequence. In addition, the first of the three requires two levels in EACH of the two classes. The second of the three requires four levels in each class, and the third requires six levels in each of the two classes.

The idea behind these would be to make such multiclassing an attractive option, especially for those combinations that would normally be suboptimal. Obviously these feats are more powerful than other feats, but it is precisely because they must compensate for the loss of power from such multiclassing.

That being said, it's quite possible that these are still greatly overpowered, as I just threw them together in an hour.

Finally, it's clear that there may be some issue with archetypes for these. For the moment, I'm just saying that they require pureclass for both classes. Archetypes I'll worry about later.

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Whenever casting level is increased, it is to a maximum of character level, even if I don't state so explicitly. To properly judge the balance of these, please ensure you read the above about the requirements for these feats.

BARD/BARBARIAN
Raging Music:
You may use bardic music while raging. Add your barbarian level to your bard level for determining rounds of Bardic Performance per day. Add your bard level to your barbarian level for determining rounds of rage per day.

Improved Raging Music:
You may add your bard level to your barbarian level in order to determine what rage powers are available to you, and for purposes of gaining Greater Rage & Tireless Rage.
You may add your barbarian level to your bard level for all aspects of Bardic Performance (rather than just rounds per day).

Greater Raging Music:
Gain one rage power that you qualify for. Add half of your barbarian level to your bardic caster level.

BARD/CLERIC
Channeled Performance:
You may cast your domain spells spontaneously as bard spells of an equivalent level. Add your bard level to your cleric level for the purposes of your channel energy ability, and your aura. Add your cleric level to your bard level for the purposes of bardic performance per day.

Improved Channeled Performance:
Add half of your bard level to your cleric casting level. Add half of your cleric level to your bard casting level. Add your bard level to your cleric level for the purpose of domain powers. Add your cleric level to your bard level for all aspects of Bardic Performance.

Greater Channeled Performance:
Add your full bard level to your cleric casting level. Add your full cleric level to your bard casting level.
This supersedes the casting level increases from Improved Channeled Performance.

BARD/DRUID
Song of the Wild:
You may use Bardic Performance while wild shaped. Add your bard level to your druid level for the purposes of gaining the wild shape ability, and uses per day (but not additional sizes or new forms). Add your druid level to your bard level for the purpose of bardic music uses per day.

Improved Song of the Wild:
Add half of your bard level to your druid casting level. Add half of your druid level to your bard casting level. Add your bard level to your druid level for all aspects of wild shape. Add your druid level to your bard level for all aspects of Bardic Performance.

Greater Song of the Wild:
Add your full bard level to your druid casting level. Add your full druid level to your bard casting level.
This supercedes the casting level increases from Improved Song of the Wild.

BARD/FIGHTER
Ballad of War:
Your bard level stacks with your fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for fighter feats. Add your fighter level to your Bard level for the purpose of Bardic Performance rounds per day.

Improved Ballad of War:
Add your bard level to your fighter level for the purpose of armor training. Your may cast bardic spells in medium armor without arcane spell failure chance. Add your fighter level to your bard level for all aspects of Bardic Performance (rather than just rounds per day).

Greater Ballad of War:
Add your bard level to your fighter level for the purpose of weapon training & bravery. Add half of your fighter level to your bardic caster level.

[LazarX]

There are a few PrC's that specifically harmonise with certain multi-classing combos, Mystic Theurge, Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight are the ones off the top of my head.

Your proposed feats are too good. They really take out any reason to stay single classed.

[Roberta Yang]

With feats like these, why don't you just play Gestalt?

[Charlie Bell]

Late 3.5 had some feats of this variety. IMO, it works OK as long as the feats have steep prerequisites or are for feat-starved classes. In other words, to build a character this way should be a deliberate decision to specialize down a certain path, and should involve some opportunity costs in terms of feats and higher-level class features.

[Quanerious]

From the discussion boards, the early development of Pathfinder classes was to avoid the ClassX 3/ClassY 5/ClassZ 4 problem that became so common in 3.5. Its also the reason that half-elves get their bonus and others get a non-bonus for taking another class (i.e.-Favored class options). Your ideas are good, but set the game back rather than push it forward.

Also something to think about is the addition of other classes as time continues. I see nothing for oracle or alchemist. Do you add an option for every class that now comes out? I think it easier to add option for favored class option than for multiclass options.

[LazarX]

Charlie Bell wrote:

Late 3.5 had some feats of this variety. IMO, it works OK as long as the feats have steep prerequisites or are for feat-starved classes. In other words, to build a character this way should be a deliberate decision to specialize down a certain path, and should involve some opportunity costs in terms of feats and higher-level class features.

Keep in mind that all characters now get more feats than they did in 3.5.

[Rudy2]

Yeah, this was a late night bad idea. Not because of the concept (which I still love), nor because they encourage multiclassing, nor because they're overpowered (which could be tuned down).

No, it's because three for every combination of core/base class would be on the order of 1000 feats. 0.o

[toastwolf]

Rudy2 wrote:

Yeah, this was a late night bad idea. Not because of the concept (which I still love), nor because they encourage multiclassing, nor because they're overpowered (which could be tuned down).

No, it's because three for every combination of core/base class would be on the order of 1000 feats. 0.o

um so how about 1 feat per combo and ignore combos whose core archetypes cant mesh like monk/barb. the feats could simply improve over time, also you cannot benefit from favored class any further, and make prereqs like five levels in each class or something. just some ideas

[Ciaran Barnes]

Some of these feats, even the entry level o es, look overly potent. I think these could be simplified quite a bit too. For example:

BARBARIC NATURE
Prerequisites: Str 13, Rage class feature
Benefit: Choose one class other barbarian. Your levels in that class count as barbarian levels for the purpose of determining the number of rounds per day you can rage. You cannot count more levels in this way than you have levels of barbarian.

CLERICAL DOCTRINE
Prerequisites: Wis 13, Domains class feature
Benefit: Choose one class other than cleric. Your levels in that class count as cleric levels for the purpose of determining the effects of your domain powers. You cannot count more levels in this way than you have levels in cleric.

Etc etc. The wording is still clunky though.