Tried something a little bit different one day; Took a Sylph character, gave 'em the "Cloud Gazer" feat... decided that, in combat, he'd have an Eversmoking Bottle, unstoppered, strapped across his shoulder.
The idea: Teehee, maybe I can be a major annoyance, run around in smokey area that I can see perfectly fine through, and force a close combat that I excel at!
...As readers might have imagined by now, it didn't work out so well.
So. Might as well get these questions out of the way:
1) Does Cloud Gazer see through Smoke as well as fog mist, and clouds?
2) What is the nature of the Eversmoking Bottle's smoke? Is it:
- Non-magic, or magic in nature
- capable of granting Total Concealment? Only concealment? Neither?
- Following the same rules as, say, a Fog Cloud?
- possible to see through to a certain distance?
- Following the bottle, if the bottle remains in motion?
- Hard to breathe in, choking, (like the Pyrotechnics spell required to make the item) ?
- ,If above is true, capable of suffocating a creature?
Throw in whatever else you can think of...
and finally... something completely Cloud Gazer related:
3) In the event of a Fog Cloud, an effect created by magic, does Cloud Gazer grant one the ability to see 15 feet through without penalty, or None at all, since anything within 5 feet already has Concealment?
Nobody? (Shameless bump~)
I take it that's an answer to #1...?
1) No, smoke isn't listed.
2) It is from a magical effect. I would go with total concealment ("totally obscuring vision").
3) None, as you explained.
1) Alright. guess that's established as a solid 'no'.
2) At what point does it become total concealment? Being immediately within the smoke? more than 5 feet in?
3)... Alright. I just want to note here that Cloud Gazer completely ignores concealment from fog, while the spell normally grants it...
So, basically, for #3, I think the question should be clarified as "Does a Syph with Cloud Gazer gain No sight within, or 15 feet of clear, normal sight within the fog, and then anything beyond that is total concealment, since a Sylph with Cloud Gazer normally ignores concealment granted from such effects?"
1) Alright. guess that's established as a solid 'no'.
2) At what point does it become total concealment? Being immediately within the smoke? more than 5 feet in?
3)... Alright. I just want to note here that Cloud Gazer completely ignores concealment from fog, while the spell normally grants it...
So, basically, for #3, I think the question should be clarified as "Does a Syph with Cloud Gazer gain No sight within, or 15 feet of clear, normal sight within the fog, and then anything beyond that is total concealment, since a Sylph with Cloud Gazer normally ignores concealment granted from such effects?"
2) I would say when you have partial concealment it would be less than totally obscuring. Judgement call I guess?
3) No sight, in order for there to be an extended range there would have to be a range where there were no penalties to extend.
2) I would say when you have partial concealment it would be less than totally obscuring. Judgement call I guess?3) No sight, in order for there to be an extended range there would have to be a range where there were no penalties to extend.
2) . May I ask what you're basing your answers on, because the Eversmoking bottle itself never states that it's obscuring vision... (from what I'm seeing)
3) That's just it. a Sylph with Cloud Gazer does not suffer penalties from the first 5 feet. But the spell normally would penalize one by granting concealment to anything even remotely within....
2) Read the item, I'm on a phone and quoting something is more trouble than it is worth (more so if the other person isn't willing to read it themselves; nothing personal it is just more often than not people on the forums don't really read everything they argue/or miss things). The "totally obscuring vision" I typed in was a quote from the item, not a judgement call by the way.
The judgement is in whether it is partial or total concealment.
3)The feat says it triples the range the character can see without penalty. Every range of sight has penalty in a fog cloud spell. If the spell allowed for vision out to 10' and concealment BEYOND 10' you would have 30'.
mmm...I see. Somehow, reading over it again and again, I missed that one bit. ^_^ ...Ahwell. So, I guess we'll assume total concealment, even 5 feet in? ( no gradual fade into total concealment, like Fog Cloud... )
...as for #3...
Again... Cloud Gazer states "You can see through fog, mist, and clouds, without penalty, ignoring any cover or concealment bonuses from such effects", right?
So... One way, that I would normally interpret, is that because the Sylph is ignoring the concealment factor of fog cloud, it can see 5 feet in without penalty, and thus that range is extended to 15 feet...
...The other way to see it, is that because any normal character would be penalized the first 5 feet, then it does not extend at all.
So...not to upset, this is just me wanting clarification on the wording.
Does the distance triple because You (the sylph) can see without penalty? (You can; you're ignoring the concealment effect)...
Or does the distance Not triple, because You (Any other sight-dependent creature) Cannot see without penalty (before Cloud Gazer)...
The part you are quoting is in regards to "normal" non-magic fog/mist/clouds. When dealing with magical versions the game changes and specific language comes into play. RAW unless it stated there was a visual range where you could see up to/beyond which there was a penalty you can't triple anything. If you read Obscuring mist, that is the language you are looking for (beyond 5' there is concealment) so you would have 15' with this feat. Fog cloud imposes a penalty at any distance so it wouldn't triple anything.
Hmm...Alright.
That seems about right then. ^_^ Thank you.