Do natural attacks count as unarmed strikes?

[Hoogie]

Can I do things like apply weapon finesse or boar style to natural attacks?

[Quatar]

Natural weapons and Unaremd Strikes are something different, but you can apply Weapon Finesse to Natural Weapons.

Actually says so in the feat, that they're light weapons...

[Mucronis]

for the Boar style, you'd need the improved unarmed strike AND Feral combat training (think that's what it's called) Feral combat gives you the ability to apply feats (like boar style) that normally work on unarmed strikes to work on natural attacks.

or in short, NO, natural attacks do not count as unarmed strike, but yes with some feats you can apply style Feats to natural attacks.

[Seranov]

On a related tangent, if you are using a Cestus or (Spiked) Gauntlet, do your attacks still count as unarmed for the purposes of things like Dragon Style/Ferocity?

[Quatar]

No, as soon as you use a weapon, you're not unarmed anymore.

Monks would have it so much easier if they could just use brass knuckles or cesti (or whatever the plural of cestus is) and enchant them.

But that's been canned by the Devs a while ago.

[wraithstrike]

No. SKR specifically said that weapon based attacks are not unarmed strikes. The errata is not out yet though.

[TGMaxMaxer]

in the description for PF CRB says monks get unarmed damage bonuses for using brass knuckles and can then enchant them as weapons.

[wraithstrike]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

in the description for PF CRB says monks get unarmed damage bonuses for using brass knuckles and can then enchant them as weapons.

The CRB does not say monks gets unarmed damage bonus for using brass knuckles. They are not even in the CRB. They are in the APG, and the adventure's armory book. In the adventure armory book they were errata'd so that the unarmed strike information was taken out. SKR said the APG will be errata'd to read the same way.

[TGMaxMaxer]

sorry... wasn't paying attention to which gear tab of the PRD i was on at the time.

[blackbloodtroll]

Feral Combat Training will allow you to treat a natural attack as an unarmed strike.

[Skylancer4]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Feral Combat Training will allow you to treat a natural attack as an unarmed strike.

Not correct BBT, it allows you to use your selected NA in a FoB as a monk weapon (as per the FAQ) and can be used in conjunction with feats that have IUS as a prereq. That is not the same as being "treated as an unarmed strike."

[Quatar]

Skylancer4 wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Feral Combat Training will allow you to treat a natural attack as an unarmed strike.

Not correct BBT, it allows you to use your selected NA in a FoB as a monk weapon (as per the FAQ) and can be used in conjunction with feats that have IUS as a prereq. That is not the same as being "treated as an unarmed strike."

That's just the Special line of the feat which refers to monks and FOB, the whole rest of the feat refers to anyone.

Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

For pretty much everything the NA counts as unarmed strike with that feat.

[Skylancer4]

Quatar wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Feral Combat Training will allow you to treat a natural attack as an unarmed strike.

Not correct BBT, it allows you to use your selected NA in a FoB as a monk weapon (as per the FAQ) and can be used in conjunction with feats that have IUS as a prereq. That is not the same as being "treated as an unarmed strike."

That's just the Special line of the feat which refers to monks and FOB, the whole rest of the feat refers to anyone.

Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

For pretty much everything the NA counts as unarmed strike with that feat.

There is a huge difference between the two. The natural attack in question isn't an unarmed strike, it wouldn't use the increased damage of the monk table. What you quoted is the necessary wording to let the NA use feats like stunning fist, or style feats as well as benefit from spells that state Unarmed Strike as something they can affect (like magic weapon/greater magic weapon). All things an unarmed strike can do, and which FCT allows that natural attack to do. Essentially the natural attack can be used in place of the unarmed strike.

[Quatar]

And where exactly was anyone talking about getting the monk increased damage on NA?
The OP asked if he can use style feats with NA, and for that he needs Feral Combat to have them count as unarmed strikes.

[Skylancer4]

When BBT stated a natural attack was an unarmed strike, it was a correction to clarify what was said on the Rules Forum.

[blackbloodtroll]

I think you read more into my post than was there.

[Skylancer4]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I think you read more into my post than was there.

Less read more into it than clarifying ;)

[TGMaxMaxer]

Not to argue, just to see why not, is not the monks increased unarmed strike damage an

Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

?? Is this an errata/faq/PFS ruling? because I can see it argued that way, the same as Brass knuckles and cestus are written to allow a monk to use his unarmed damage with them, altho for a faq they were changed to no longer do that.

[Skylancer4]

Class abilities are class abilities (of which the monks Unarmed Strike is), feats aren't considered effects in and of themselves but some feats can generate effects.

Also in the FAQ for FCT it states that the natural weapon is used as if it were a monk, monk weapons don't do monks unarmed strike damage, they do their own listed damage.