Sun-Times article. This is what is happening in my town, how about yours? Can the police be allowed to do their job? The community has failed to keep violence down. I support stop & frisk.
Guess where I'm not living. That place.
Chicago. That's where Obama is from.
Coincidence?
Sun-Times article. This is what is happening in my town, how about yours? Can the police be allowed to do their job? The community has failed to keep violence down. I support stop & frisk.
Black people are citizens too. No unreasonable search and seizure applies to them walking down the streets as much as it applies to you in your own home. If the cops wanted to search YOU, your house, or your car or better yet insisted on searching the house of every gun owner you'd be livid.
Also, stop and frisk is rarely effective against drive by shootings.
Edit: Their job is to uphold the law. By definition they cannot do that job while simultaneously violating the highest law in the land, the us constitution. Freedom is messy.
Sun-Times article. This is what is happening in my town, how about yours? Can the police be allowed to do their job? The community has failed to keep violence down. I support stop & frisk.
Black people are citizens too. No unreasonable search and seizure applies to them walking down the streets as much as it applies to you in your own home. If the cops wanted to search YOU, your house, or your car or better yet insisted on searching the house of every gun owner you'd be livid.
Also, stop and frisk is rarely effective against drive by shootings.
Indeed. You have brought up your support of stop and frisk on several occasions, but never have you mentioned your thoughts on such tactics being aimed at you personally or even someone in your commmunity. While I would hazard a guess that you would protest that that would be somehow "different", I would not want to put words in your mouth. Would you have no problem being searched on a regular basis with no real evidence to back up being searched other than an officer's dubious word?
When I think of Chicago, police, and stop-and-frisk, I can't help but think of this and this.
Chicago already has a long history of treating its black population like terrorists.
It makes me wish I lived in a country that considered torture illegal. I normally don't think armed resistance is of much use in modern times, but those are some pig's I can't dig.
Also, if cops can search me, I fail to see why I can't search them... If we are going to ignore the 4th amendment, let's get rid of it completely!
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To be clear, I have no problem with officers searching me if the situation warrants it. I DO have a problem with an officer stopping me on the way to work by pulling his squad car in front of my bike, covering up his badge, and saying "Hey. Come here." in a very hostile fashion. That's not acting like a cop, that's acting like someone who's trying to pull something fast and probably violent.
And yes, it's happened to me before.
To be clear, I have no problem with officers searching me if the situation warrants it. I DO have a problem with an officer stopping me on the way to work by pulling his squad car in front of my bike, covering up his badge, and saying "Hey. Come here." in a very hostile fashion. That's not acting like a cop, that's acting like someone who's trying to pull something fast and probably violent.
And yes, it's happened to me before.
NYPD - World's Biggest Street Gang! I find the cars to be very easy to drop on a bicycle, but like the clever velociraptor they tend to use pack tactics despite their tiny brains.
Sun-Times article. This is what is happening in my town, how about yours? Can the police be allowed to do their job? The community has failed to keep violence down. I support stop & frisk.
Black people are citizens too. No unreasonable search and seizure applies to them walking down the streets as much as it applies to you in your own home. If the cops wanted to search YOU, your house, or your car or better yet insisted on searching the house of every gun owner you'd be livid.
Also, stop and frisk is rarely effective against drive by shootings.
Edit: Their job is to uphold the law. By definition they cannot do that job while simultaneously violating the highest law in the land, the us constitution. Freedom is messy.
I'm sad to say you ruin the dialogue by injecting race. It has nothing to do with race, its common sense.
Scenario: Police see 3 dudes in a car at 2:30 AM cruising around side streets in a HIGH crime neighborhood with dozens of shootings in recent weeks. Common sense man. Not the best scenario but it will do.
When I think of Chicago, police, and stop-and-frisk, I can't help but think of this and this.
Chicago already has a long history of treating its black population like terrorists.
Oh yeah thats what Chicago is all about right? You don't live here and know zero about the city that launched a black man to the White House.
For what its worth its not a race problem, its a crime problem. Those that cry foul about getting pulled over on the way home from work, on their bikes are blowing this out into the realm of silliness.
Indeed. You have brought up your support of stop and frisk on several occasions, but never have you mentioned your thoughts on such tactics being aimed at you personally or even someone in your commmunity. While I would hazard a guess that you would protest that that would be somehow "different", I would not want to put words in your mouth. Would you have no problem being searched on a regular basis with no real evidence to back up being searched other than an officer's dubious word?Sun-Times article. This is what is happening in my town, how about yours? Can the police be allowed to do their job? The community has failed to keep violence down. I support stop & frisk.
Black people are citizens too. No unreasonable search and seizure applies to them walking down the streets as much as it applies to you in your own home. If the cops wanted to search YOU, your house, or your car or better yet insisted on searching the house of every gun owner you'd be livid.
Also, stop and frisk is rarely effective against drive by shootings.
If I lived in the epicenter of a neighborhood literally at war YEAH I would have no problem allowing the police to do their job.
Are you aware that in these neighborhodds High schools have metal detectors and police line the streets for blocks to prevent after school violence?
If these men have done nothing, then the cops are wasting everyone's time.
Sun-Times article. This is what is happening in my town, how about yours? Can the police be allowed to do their job? The community has failed to keep violence down. I support stop & frisk.
Black people are citizens too. No unreasonable search and seizure applies to them walking down the streets as much as it applies to you in your own home. If the cops wanted to search YOU, your house, or your car or better yet insisted on searching the house of every gun owner you'd be livid.
Also, stop and frisk is rarely effective against drive by shootings.
Edit: Their job is to uphold the law. By definition they cannot do that job while simultaneously violating the highest law in the land, the us constitution. Freedom is messy.
I'm sad to say you ruin the dialogue by injecting race. It has nothing to do with race, its common sense.
Scenario: Police see 3 dudes in a car at 2:30 AM cruising around side streets in a HIGH crime neighborhood with dozens of shootings in recent weeks. Common sense man. Not the best scenario but it will do.
Have you forgotten who you're talking to? You're describing the same neighborhoods I grew up in. It still doesn't excuse or encourage stop and frisk tactics. Stopping and asking a question would go a hell of a lot farther than assuming someone's guilty because you mislike mislike the look of him. Once again, your definition of common sense and mine do not coincide.
Indeed. You have brought up your support of stop and frisk on several occasions, but never have you mentioned your thoughts on such tactics being aimed at you personally or even someone in your commmunity. While I would hazard a guess that you would protest that that would be somehow "different", I would not want to put words in your mouth. Would you have no problem being searched on a regular basis with no real evidence to back up being searched other than an officer's dubious word?Sun-Times article. This is what is happening in my town, how about yours? Can the police be allowed to do their job? The community has failed to keep violence down. I support stop & frisk.
Black people are citizens too. No unreasonable search and seizure applies to them walking down the streets as much as it applies to you in your own home. If the cops wanted to search YOU, your house, or your car or better yet insisted on searching the house of every gun owner you'd be livid.
Also, stop and frisk is rarely effective against drive by shootings.
If I lived in the epicenter of a neighborhood literally at war YEAH I would have no problem allowing the police to do their job.
Are you aware that in these neighborhodds High schools have metal detectors and police line the streets for blocks to prevent after school violence?
Sorry, posting from phone. Makes things difficult.
Can you people figure out how to quote properly? I have no idea who's saying what here.
I'm sad to say you ruin the dialogue by injecting race.
You ignore reality if you ignore that that's a large component of what happens in these stop and frisk situations. Geographic and racial discrimination are no different because race and geography are so highly correlated.
It has nothing to do with race, its common sense.
Oh, we don't need a constitution we have common sense...
Look, the bill of rights is not a list of inviolable rights when its something you want to do and a loose guideline when it affects someone else. That's a disingenuous double standard. You act like the holy constitution, the saints that founded our country and God himself enshrined the second amendment and YOUR rights in stone, but the "common sense" of someone that's had 8 whole weeks of academy training is enough to toss the 4th amendment into virtual uselessness.
Scenario: Police see 3 dudes in a car at 2:30 AM cruising around side streets in a HIGH crime neighborhood with dozens of shootings in recent weeks. Common sense man. Not the best scenario but it will do.
You cannot just stop everyone out at 2:30 in the morning. Some people work nights, some people are going for joy rides,some people get the munchies and head for dennys. Does that make it harder on the police? Yes. Guess what, most of our rights do that. They're worth it.
You know what else is common sense? Maybe those same people you're looking for shouldn't be able to walk into a a gun show, sporting goods store, or hell even a walmart and walk out 20 minutes later with enough firepower and ammo to take over a small country.
Oh yeah thats what Chicago is all about right? You don't live here and know zero about the city that launched a black man to the White House.
For what its worth its not a race problem, its a crime problem. Those that cry foul about getting pulled over on the way home from work, on their bikes are blowing this out into the realm of silliness.
I have no idea what Chicago is all about. All I know is that you are on here proposing giving the Chicago police unconstitutional powers. The same police force that has a well-documented history of grotesque racist abuse.
In the first article, we have the Chicago police torturing over 100 black people. In the second article, we have the Republican governor of Illinois--who, if I remember correctly, served on Bush II's Committee to Re-Elect the President, so no soft-hearted liberal there--shutting down the death penalty because of a pattern of police misbehavior. I don't know for a fact, but I bet most of them were black. In previous pages, you have argued for treating gang members like terrorists. This is what it would look like.
Chicago has already been doing it to its black population for the last 40 years.
When I think of Chicago, police, and stop-and-frisk, I can't help but think of this and this.
Chicago already has a long history of treating its black population like terrorists.
Oh yeah thats what Chicago is all about right? You don't live here and know zero about the city that launched a black man to the White House.
For what its worth its not a race problem, its a crime problem. Those that cry foul about getting pulled over on the way home from work, on their bikes are blowing this out into the realm of silliness.
I'll keep that in mind.
You are aware that we live in 2012 A.D. right? Why do you continue to bring up the past as a social barrier? I think its to continue to divide and create racism where there is none.Chicago has already been doing it to its black population for the last 40 years.Probably longer.
Who do you think are the dominant racial groups living in the neighborhoods that you feel "stop and frisk" would be okay to be enacted? It feels disingenuous to say that race would not be an issue. In fact, to quote you, it would be "common sense."
By the way, stop and frisk would create an even more decisive situation etween racial groups and would cause the police to be (whether fair or not) seen in a more negative light.
Fred Hampton: Murdered by Chicago Cops, 1969
I know it's the past, but, it's a pretty cool clip.
I'm sad to say you ruin the dialogue by injecting race.
You ignore reality if you ignore that that's a large component of what happens in these stop and frisk situations. Geographic and racial discrimination are no different because race and geography are so highly correlated.
It has nothing to do with race, its common sense.Oh, we don't need a constitution we have common sense...
Look, the bill of rights is not a list of inviolable rights when its something you want to do and a loose guideline when it affects someone else. That's a disingenuous double standard. You act like the holy constitution, the saints that founded our country and God himself enshrined the second amendment and YOUR rights in stone, but the "common sense" of someone that's had 8 whole weeks of academy training is enough to toss the 4th amendment into virtual uselessness.
Scenario: Police see 3 dudes in a car at 2:30 AM cruising around side streets in a HIGH crime neighborhood with dozens of shootings in recent weeks. Common sense man. Not the best scenario but it will do.You cannot just stop everyone out at 2:30 in the morning. Some people work nights, some people are going for joy rides,some people get the munchies and head for dennys. Does that make it harder on the police? Yes. Guess what, most of our rights do that. They're worth it.
You know what else is common sense? Maybe those same people you're looking for shouldn't be able to walk into a a gun show, sporting goods store, or hell even a walmart and walk out 20 minutes later with enough firepower and ammo to take over a small country.
Hey, like I said put the silly scenarios aside.
About the gun shows or walmart thing, we are talking about Chicago here. We cannot buy unless its out of state or at a gun store. There was an article written about a week ago that illustrated how 90% of the guns associated with shootings can be traced to sales from one Chicago gun shop.You mentioned something about Cops with 8 weeks of training. The Cops I know and they know tell me that nobody fresh out of the academy is going to be assigned on a task force in one of the many problem areas of Chicago. You have to develop some good street cred. The cops assigned to do that job will be well trained not only in police work but in how to act appropriately in the community. Sorry man.
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Hey, like I said put the silly scenarios aside.
You don't get to decide whats silly. You don't get to decide that someone doesn't "belong" in a certain neighborhood at a certain time. Going to work is not silly. Going to dinner is not silly. While the thought of being in some of those neighborhoods at 2:30 in the morning might scare you, it is in fact where some people live and they're used to it.
About the gun shows or walmart thing, we are talking about Chicago here. We cannot buy unless its out of state or at a gun store. There was an article written about a week ago that illustrated how 90% of the guns associated with shootings can be traced to sales from one Chicago gun shop.
You're completely missing the point.
X is unconstitutional but its lets the police do their job better, so we should do X.
When X is "take your gun away" you're against it. When X is "ignore 4th amendment prohibitions and search anyone we damn well feel like" you're fine with it. The only changing variable is whether or not it affects you.
. You have to develop some good street cred. The cops assigned to do that job will be well trained not only in police work but in how to act appropriately in the community. Sorry man.
There is no appropriate way to trample on someone's constitutional rights. This was done in new york and its resulted in blatant racial profiling, all indications are that chigacgo would be at best be the same.
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Yes, because there is an appropriate way to trample on someone's constitutional rights.
LOL. There is if you're a silly negro or latino who happens to live in one of those neighborhoods.
Speaking of course as a silly negro who has lived in a few of those neighborhoods (Bushwick and East Flatbush in Brooklyn and Lefrak Queens. And have also spent a fair amount of time in East Harlem since a few of my friends lived in those neighborhoods as well.
Cops are simply just another gang except they're pretty much a gang with carte blanche to do what they want. Very few of them actually care about the neighborhoods they are stewards of. You know how you know the ones who care and give a crap? Those are the ones who actually stop and talk to you outside of trying to make an arrest. They talk to the kids, they talk to the old timers, the bodega owners. They build and earn respect and trust. I like those Officers.
On the other hand, you want to know what would start to sort things out in these neighborhoods? This stupid ass STOP SNITCHING crap. These a-holes are KILLING YOUR CHILDREN. They are killing people who aren't even in the game. Not only are they bad people they SUCK at being criminals. Why are you protecting them when they dont give a rat-ass about you, your safety of you or kids. These neighborhoods should be killing these people in the street. Seriously some corner kid gets shot? Some stick up kid gets shot? Who cares? But civilians are getting gunned down, kids are getting killed for no good reason.
Yes, because there is an appropriate way to trample on someone's constitutional rights.
LOL. There is if you're a silly negro or latino who happens to live in one of those neighborhoods.
Speaking of course as a silly negro who has lived in a few of those neighborhoods (Bushwick and East Flatbush in Brooklyn and Lefrak Queens. And have also spent a fair amount of time in East Harlem since a few of my friends lived in those neighborhoods as well.
Cops are simply just another gang except they're pretty much a gang with carte blanche to do what they want. Very few of them actually care about the neighborhoods they are stewards of. You know how you know the ones who care and give a crap? Those are the ones who actually stop and talk to you outside of trying to make an arrest. They talk to the kids, they talk to the old timers, the bodega owners. They build and earn respect and trust. I like those Officers.
On the other hand, you want to know what would start to sort things out in these neighborhoods? This stupid ass STOP SNITCHING crap. These a-holes are KILLING YOUR CHILDREN. They are killing people who aren't even in the game. Not only are they bad people they SUCK at being criminals. Why are you protecting them when they dont give a rat-ass about you, your safety of you or kids. These neighborhoods should be killing these people in the street. Seriously some corner kid gets shot? Some stick up kid gets shot? Who cares? But civilians are getting gunned down, kids are getting killed for no good reason.
Let brooklyn be her own city once again!!!!!!
And yes, Stop Snitching b#%%!@+& is costing people their lives.
What's actually going on here? Chicago's always had a high murder rate, but it had been trending down along with the rest of the country. That suggests to me that this spike isn't just "the police not being allowed to do their job", but that something specific is happening. Unless police rules have changed this year?Chicago has spent the last two years laying off police and closing police stations.
That would make a difference.
One of the reasons, though far from the only one, that the 1960s got so violent is that most departments had recently transitioned over from cops walking beats to cops riding around in cars. This was supposed to save a lot of money as fewer cops could cover more geographic area and respond faster. It sort of did that, but had the hidden cost of going a long ways to distance police from the communities they served, helping promote distrust on both ends. It's a lot harder to club to death or shoot someone you know than it is to do it to a stranger.
Hey, like I said put the silly scenarios aside.You don't get to decide whats silly. You don't get to decide that someone doesn't "belong" in a certain neighborhood at a certain time. Going to work is not silly. Going to dinner is not silly. While the thought of being in some of those neighborhoods at 2:30 in the morning might scare you, it is in fact where some people live and they're used to it.
About the gun shows or walmart thing, we are talking about Chicago here. We cannot buy unless its out of state or at a gun store. There was an article written about a week ago that illustrated how 90% of the guns associated with shootings can be traced to sales from one Chicago gun shop.You're completely missing the point.
X is unconstitutional but its lets the police do their job better, so we should do X.
When X is "take your gun away" you're against it. When X is "ignore 4th amendment prohibitions and search anyone we damn well feel like" you're fine with it. The only changing variable is whether or not it affects you.
. You have to develop some good street cred. The cops assigned to do that job will be well trained not only in police work but in how to act appropriately in the community. Sorry man.There is no appropriate way to trample on someone's constitutional rights. This was done in new york and its resulted in blatant racial profiling, all indications are that chigacgo would be at best be the same.
Stop being silly man. Stop twisting this into who "belongs" as you say and quoted. Tell me more about the BLATANT racial profiling in NY? You are reaching on this one because there was no blatant racial profiling, in other words no racism.
Look at the crime stats in the NY neighborhoods when stop and frisk was in enacted, huge drop in crime. Look at results not your political agenda.People are upset at being stopped but what is the answer? Over 90% of shooting and murder victims are minorities.
In an effort to avoid the racism or history derails
No? :(
But I just finished watching The Black Power Mixtape!
Power to the people!
Vive le Galt!
Stop being silly man. Stop twisting this into who "belongs" as you say and quoted. Tell me more about the BLATANT racial profiling in NY? You are reaching on this one because there was no blatant racial profiling, in other words no racism.
Look at the crime stats in the NY neighborhoods when stop and frisk was in enacted, huge drop in crime. Look at results not your political agenda.
People are upset at being stopped but what is the answer? Ove 90% of shooting and murder victims are...
First, please stop being so dismissive. It doesn't help your particular argument or agenda.
Second I can tell you about the blatant racial profiling in NY? I've lived here all my life and have seen it first hand on multiple occasions. I've been in the west village and seen the police stop black and latino kids who are on their way somewhere while ignoring the drunken WHITE FRAT KIDS right across the street walking around with open bottles. Me and a friend were running to catch a bus and were damn near run down by a cop car two cops getting out GUNS DRAWN. Who said we matched suspects who had robbed a house in the neighborhood. The clarification call came back over the wire while they held us and the suspects were 2 WHITE MALES. They left without so much as a acknowledgement at the pure f**king TERROR of almost being shot because of mistaken identity. I've got at least 5 or 6 stories like that but I have the feeling that you'd dismiss my experiences as anecdotal or silly as you've already done further upthread. Listen, I've had guns aimed at me, put to my head by legitimately BAD PEOPLE and have never been as scared as I have when I've had police reach for their guns or aim them at me or my friends for no DAMN GOOD REASON.
Third, your bringing up these stats to defend your point but wont produce the stats.
Forth, please stop hammering the point about over 90% of shooting victims are minorities. It makes you come across as a person from outside of these communities who for some reason care about the crimes in these communities but could give a damn about the actual people who live in these neighborhoods.
For my part I'm legitimately more afraid of the police than I am of actual criminals. The criminals are supposed to be aholes. They're supposed to be doing grimy sh*t, THEYRE CRIMINALS. But the police? They see criminals, as well, criminals. The actual problem is that most of them see everyone who isnt them as criminals too. ESPECIALLY if you're black and latino. Although these days a few of my white friends are starting to see how brutal and messed up the police can be first hand.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/13/nypd-stop-and-frisks-15-shocking-f acts_n_1513362.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/15/nyregion/for-new-york-police-theres-no-en d-to-the-stops.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss
http://gothamist.com/2012/05/13/nypd_on_track_to_shatter_stop-and-f.php
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93033439/NYCLU-2011-Stop-And-Frisk-Report
Stop being silly man.
Don't give me a backhanded insult calling me/ what I'm saying silly. SHOW it. The problem is you can't, so you need to result to passive aggressive insults like this.
Address the constitutionality of the searches already if you actually want to hit the heart of the matter.
Stop twisting this into who "belongs" as you say and quoted.
Someone's out in a bad neighborhood at 2 am.. they MUST be up to no good! Quick.. search em!
How else can you possibly read that?
Tell me more about the BLATANT racial profiling in NY?
Some neighborhoods have had more stops of young black men than they have young black men. The class action lawsuit just got the go ahead.
Look at the crime stats in the NY neighborhoods when stop and frisk was in enacted, huge drop in crime. Look at results not your political agenda.
Citation please. And no, its not my homework its your claim.
Peoples constitutional rights are not a political agenda.
Seriously, if i don't care about peoples rights whats the end game here? What other possible motivation could i have?
People are upset at being stopped but what is the answer? Ove 90% of shooting and murder victims are minorities.
We can't ban the guns because that would be unconstitutional
But we can just go ahead and search people without a warrant or probable cause.Do you see just a little cognitive dissonance there?
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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
So a police officer needs to have probable cause to search an individual.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Well even though the courts have ruled otherwise it seems to say that only a militia or "people" can keep or bear arms. Not individual or "persons."
However much like the 1st amendment the exact wording is not how the courts have concluded it affects your lives.
Stop being silly man. Stop twisting this into who "belongs" as you say and quoted. Tell me more about the BLATANT racial profiling in NY? You are reaching on this one because there was no blatant racial profiling, in other words no racism.
Look at the crime stats in the NY neighborhoods when stop and frisk was in enacted, huge drop in crime. Look at results not your political agenda.
People are upset at being stopped but what is the answer? Ove 90% of shooting and murder victims are...First, please stop being so dismissive. It doesn't help your particular argument or agenda.
Second I can tell you about the blatant racial profiling in NY? I've lived here all my life and have seen it first hand on multiple occasions. I've been in the west village and seen the police stop black and latino kids who are on their way somewhere while ignoring the drunken WHITE FRAT KIDS right across the street walking around with open bottles. Me and a friend were running to catch a bus and were damn near run down by a cop car two cops getting out GUNS DRAWN. Who said we matched suspects who had robbed a house in the neighborhood. The clarification call came back over the wire while they held us and the suspects were 2 WHITE MALES. They left without so much as a acknowledgement at the pure f**king TERROR of almost being shot because of mistaken identity. I've got at least 5 or 6 stories like that but I have the feeling that you'd dismiss my experiences as anecdotal or silly as you've already done further upthread. Listen, I've had guns aimed at me, put to my head by legitimately BAD PEOPLE and have never been as scared as I have when I've had police reach for their guns or aim them at me or my friends for no DAMN GOOD REASON.
Third, your bringing up these stats to defend your point but wont produce the stats.
Forth, please stop hammering the point about over 90% of shooting victims are minorities. It makes you come across as a person from outside of these communities who for some...
Calling the police "a gang" does not help. I can't take you seriously.
To the last sentence you wrote, incase you missed it I started this thread because I care about my community.
Calling the police "a gang" does not help. I can't take you seriously.
To the last sentence you wrote, incase you missed it I started this thread because I care about my community.
It doesn't matter what you take seriously, or what mental gymnastics you go through to preserve your ideological narrative. The fact remains that people do not like the police and have a culture of such, especially in minority communities. Not only that, but this opinion is completely justified.
This is reality and we have to deal with what is actually the case, as determined through observing (what a novel concept). The police are going to have to shape up, and aggressively combat both their negative image, and their actual misbehavior.
It also does not matter whether stop and frisk reduces crime or not (I don't think that it does, statistics only show that arrests for things like possession of really small amounts of pot are up). It is pretty blatantly an excuse for the police to racially profile (which is illegal) and stop people with no legitimate probable cause (which is unconstitutional).
What's actually going on here? Chicago's always had a high murder rate, but it had been trending down along with the rest of the country. That suggests to me that this spike isn't just "the police not being allowed to do their job", but that something specific is happening. Unless police rules have changed this year?Chicago has spent the last two years laying off police and closing police stations.That would make a difference.
One of the reasons, though far from the only one, that the 1960s got so violent is that most departments had recently transitioned over from cops walking beats to cops riding around in cars. This was supposed to save a lot of money as fewer cops could cover more geographic area and respond faster. It sort of did that, but had the hidden cost of going a long ways to distance police from the communities they served, helping promote distrust on both ends. It's a lot harder to club to death or shoot someone you know than it is to do it to a stranger.
As much as I hate Guiliani, I have to admit that forcing cops to walk a beat improved relations within even the most troubled communities.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
So a police officer needs to have probable cause to search an individual.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.Well even though the courts have ruled otherwise it seems to say that only a militia or "people" can keep or bear arms. Not individual or "persons."
However much like the 1st amendment the exact wording is not how the courts have concluded it affects your lives.
I would also say the "oath or affirmation" part causes problems.
I'm a blonde-haired, blue-eyed middle class white male. And I dislike police because I've been unduly harassed by them in the past (among other reasons).
If it helps to elucidate the proceedings, I think the suspected reason behind the rash of gang violence in Chicago is Mexican drug cartels in a turf war or something. Or at least that's one ingredient.
I don't and never have lived in Chicago, but both my maternal grandparents grew up there in the depression and my great grandmother met Al Capone. My great-grandfather had mob ties. I still have a lot of relatives there, and my roots run deep, even if I'm the first generation in 8 to live outside of the city.
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...
Stop being silly man. Stop twisting this into who "belongs" as you say and quoted. Tell me more about the BLATANT racial profiling in NY? You are reaching on this one because there was no blatant racial profiling, in other words no racism.
Look at the crime stats in the NY neighborhoods when stop and frisk was in enacted, huge drop in crime. Look at results not your political agenda.
People are upset at being stopped but what is the answer? Ove 90% of shooting and murder victims are...First, please stop being so dismissive. It doesn't help your particular argument or agenda.
Second I can tell you about the blatant racial profiling in NY? I've lived here all my life and have seen it first hand on multiple occasions. I've been in the west village and seen the police stop black and latino kids who are on their way somewhere while ignoring the drunken WHITE FRAT KIDS right across the street walking around with open bottles. Me and a friend were running to catch a bus and were damn near run down by a cop car two cops getting out GUNS DRAWN. Who said we matched suspects who had robbed a house in the neighborhood. The clarification call came back over the wire while they held us and the suspects were 2 WHITE MALES. They left without so much as a acknowledgement at the pure f**king TERROR of almost being shot because of mistaken identity. I've got at least 5 or 6 stories like that but I have the feeling that you'd dismiss my experiences as anecdotal or silly as you've already done further upthread. Listen, I've had guns aimed at me, put to my head by legitimately BAD PEOPLE and have never been as scared as I have when I've had police reach for their guns or aim them at me or my friends for no DAMN GOOD REASON.
Third, your bringing up these stats to defend your point but wont produce the stats.
Forth, please stop hammering the point about over 90% of shooting victims are minorities. It makes you come across as a person from outside of these
And the rest of his viewpoints? You aren't doing anything more here than just spouting discontent. Going point by point, especially in response to a post like this, would go a long way toward being taken more seriously. As things stand, it looks like you are just an angry guy pointing to one particularly contentious tactic as a cure all for particularly complicated problem and dismissing any and all objections by calling them "silly" without even examining them beyond a "If it were me, I'd have no problem with it". Have you ever been approached by the cops before? Have you ever even gotten a ticket before? Have you been stopped? Frisked? Let go with a warning? If so, how did the police speak to you? Did you ever consider they would treat you differently based on your race? Sex? The way you spoke to them? Have you ever had a cop be rude to you in your hometown? How about abroad? Have you had any dealings with any sort of law enforcement whatsoever beyond making the occasional 911 call? Give us something to work with here that will humanize your viewpoint beyond "kill/prosecute/detain them all, anything else is just soft hearted complaining, and btw racism doesn't exist!" or you will find your viewpoint rightfully maligned.