RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
In the Advanced Races Guide, there is a catfolk item called Claw Blades. The only relevant detail to the question at hand is this phrase:
Claw blades change the weapon type from a natural weapon to a light slashing weapon.This is my current understanding of the differences there:
Primary natural weapons:
-Use full base attack bonus
-Do not take two-weapon fighting penalties or get extra attacks from TWF feats
-Do not get additional attacks based on high BAB
-Can use Weapon Finesse
-Apply 1x Str modifier to damage for every attack
-Can be used in conjunction with manufactured weapons, but in that case they take -5 penalty and only add 1/2 Str to damage
-Cannot be enchanted like a regular weapon, only by using spells like Magic Fang or items like the Amulet of Mighty FistsLight slashing weapons:
-Use full BAB for first attack, then gain additional attacks for high BAB
-Take two-weapon fighting penalties, can benefit from feats
-Can use Weapon Finesse
-Apply 1x Str to primary hand damage, 1/2x to off hand damage(unless you take take the Double Slice feat)
-Can be enchanted normallyMy question is this; for the purposes of feats that specifically require claw attacks, such as Rending Claws or Claw Pounce, do claw blades still qualify? Or do you have to actually be using unmodified claws to get the benefit?
How about feats like Weapon Focus (claws)? Does a catfolk wearing claw blades still get the benefit of those feats, or would they need to take Weapon Focus (claw blades)?
This is one of the worst-written things to come out of any recent Paizo book, because it causes way too many issues. Here's how I see it:
-The claw blades enhance your current claws, and they don't say that they are not considered claws, so things like Weapon Focus (claws) and Claw Pounce should still apply.-Note that Rending Claws SPECIFICALLY requires two claw natural attacks, which you no longer have when you're wearing claw blades, so I think this one would be a no.
-They are no longer treated as natural weapons, so you start having to use Two-Weapon Fighting feats to help with attacks and such. You could take Double Slice, for example, to get full Str bonus on each claw.
-You could enchant them just like any other melee weapon.
Overall, I think what they MEANT to do with these weapons is just let you enchant your claws. The line about them changing to light slashing weapons was an oversight and should be removed.
|
but going off of that, you can compaire them to what was intended with Brass knuckle from Sean:
The brass knuckles problem stems from the Core Rulebook putting "gauntlet" in the "Unarmed Attacks" category, as brass knuckles are listed as "Unarmed Attacks" because gauntlets are there.Brass knuckles should be armed (light melee weapon) attacks. (As should gauntlets and spiked gauntlets.)
Which makes it clear that using brass knuckles is not an unarmed attack (and the description of the weapon should not refer to unarmed attacks), and therefore monk's don't get their unarmed damage with them. They can, as others have pointed out, still use them to flurry, and allows for things like silver brass knuckles and +5 flaming brass knuckles.
The cestus description confuses the issue by referring to unarmed attacks; it's clearly a light melee weapon and doesn't relate to unarmed strike rules at all.
Rope gauntlets are light melee weapons and its descriptive text shouldn't confuse the issue by referring to "unarmed strikes."
This points the intent of brass knuckles to be considered weapons and not unarmed attacks. The monk in question would be limited to the 1d3 damage +str, and could not do things like push Ki abilities through them any more than they could via a kama.
This is one of the worst-written things to come out of any recent Paizo book, because it causes way too many issues. Here's how I see it:
-The claw blades enhance your current claws, and they don't say that they are not considered claws, so things like Weapon Focus (claws) and Claw Pounce should still apply.
-Note that Rending Claws SPECIFICALLY requires two claw natural attacks, which you no longer have when you're wearing claw blades, so I think this one would be a no.
-They are no longer treated as natural weapons, so you start having to use Two-Weapon Fighting feats to help with attacks and such. You could take Double Slice, for example, to get full Str bonus on each claw.
-You could enchant them just like any other melee weapon.Overall, I think what they MEANT to do with these weapons is just let you enchant your claws. The line about them changing to light slashing weapons was an oversight and should be removed.
Nothing can be worse than the Synth, ever.
Other than that I will just say I disagree, could it be better spelled out? Sure, but so could everything that changes the normal aspect of a rule. It seems rather clear what it does.
RAW, it makes a claw attack a light slashing manufactured weapon (instead of a natural weapon that does S/P/B). It imposes limitations for the trade off of improving the attack magically (enhancements to weapons). Things to keep in mind, first figure out what is done to the claws (IE feats like INA), then apply the Claw Blades and look for discrepancies between natural attacks/manufactured attacks for what does and doesn't work.
As for the italics, I disagree again. It was an intentional limitation to the weapon.
Thread necro incoming!
My first reaction when I see this is that you get the best by combining both, a claw blade and a natural attack claw.
You get:
-Use full BAB for first attack, then gain additional attacks for high BAB for main hand and a secondary netural attack at BAB-5 but without penalties to mainhand.
-Take no two-weapon fighting penalties
-Can use Weapon Finesse
-Apply 1x Str to primary hand damage, 1/2x to off hand damage
-Main hand can be enchanted normally
As for feats:
- Claw pounce should still work but with full iteratives + natural attack
- Weapon focus/specialization should work for both
- Rending claws could work but is not sure, same as with using two claw blades.
- Instead of rending claws feat you can use the rending claw blade. For high str. builds it'S even better than the rending claws feat (1d4 damage plus 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus rend damage)
The only real drawback I see in combining a claw blade with a natural weapon claw is that the natural claw is either unmagical or very expensive to enchant.
But what I am asking myself is which fighter weapon group claw blades are. Are they natural weapon group or close weapon group.
Would it be worth it now that the AoMF is down to 2x weapon cost? Not to mention all you're getting out of it is 1 attack at -5 and half str damage which is roughly what you get from taking TWF.
With two weapon fighting you get a penalty to all your attacks. With Claw blade + claw you only get a penalty to the claw.